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Author Topic: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.  (Read 2434 times)

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Offline Calamity

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80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« on: August 24, 2010, 10:22:48 PM »
Found this to be very interesting.

I'm just going to focus in on what I thought were some of the more practical ones, with their numbers given:

1. Scrap Trident [3], Close all UK bases in Germany [66], Withdraw from Afghanistan [77].

Yes, hell yes and oh my god yes.  The person on 66 could not have put it better.  The Cold War is over.  World War Two is over! Chancellor Merkel isn't going to instigate the Fourth Reich if Britain bails on their bases there!  :P And do they really need Nukes.  Really?  Also, the war in Afghanistan is not worth it either IMHO.

2. Abolish Road Tax and increase Fuel Duty [50], Nationalise supply of illicit drugs [73], Increase alcholol taxes [48].

For the first one, I'm going to use my dear old dad to show why Road Tax should go.  In order for him to carry out his line of work, he needs to drive a large van which costs him £120 a week in fuel, and £199 a year in RT.  The fuel comes to £6240 a year, of which approx. 50% (£3120) goes to the Gov. as fuel duty.  With just a 5% increase in fuel duty, he now pays an extra £156 a year, which comes to £6396.  Minus the RT he wouldn't have to pay anymore, he's now £43 a year richer.  Of course, that goes to buying extra fuel to make up for the increased costs.  But overall, it works out evenly.

How does this help with the deficit?  Simple.  With no more RT to dodge, the police and DVLA no longer need to waste money chasing after the dodgers.  Whats more, these spongers now have to contribute as much to the treasury as the rest of us.  And besides, why should anyone be made to pay more tax just because they have a bigger and/or nicer car?  This levels out the playing Field.

Same with the second and third ones.  We have lost the war on drugs.  It's time to stop wasting our effort on fighting the dealers and piss heads, and instead, tax the hell out of them! (and this comes from a life time non-drug user!  Although, booze is another matter though! ;))

3. Charge for FOI requests [2], Cut CS redundancy to one year [9], Cut sick pay provisions [21], Charge for Visa appeals [27], reduce legal aid [38], stop CS bonuses [46], cap compensation claims [52], limit benifits for extra children [65].

In all these cases, they have forgotten who's money it is.  Let's remind them.....

Anyway, does anyone agree/disagree with these suggestions and the others?  And does anyone have suggestions of their own? :-\

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 03:02:08 AM »
Not a fan of number 4, speaking as a smoker. I put up with enough amphetamine parrot for it already at the moment, and taking away smoking breaks is basically trying to force me to give up against my will.

Number 10, meanwhile, is probably a joke, which is good because if it isn't the area around Old Trafford will become an extremely expensive barrio

And number 43 is simply beslubbering retarded considering how much money the UK gets from the EU
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 03:04:13 AM by Chuckles »
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 05:31:30 AM »

1: People with over £300,000 in assets should not get their pension.

This is ridiculous, as "assets" these days are probably not just considered as cash / savings, but estate values too... You'd be hard pressed to find a house in London costing you less than 300,000. What this is suggesting is stopping any form of pension. If you have paid into the state pension all your life you should be entitled to the same you put in. Otherwise, what was the point!?



2: Charge for Freedom of Information requests.

The point he makes is very valid. I would agree that charging here would seem to cut the gap generated. However, how is this implemented? remember that the freedom of information act is a piece of legislation that covers EVERYTHING... and charging for it would actually likely go against itself (as the information is no longer available freely!) Interesting, but probably unworkable.



3: Scrap Trident.

You get to a point where you have invested so much time and money into something that it would be more of a waste to throw it away than carry on. I'm not certain if scrapping trident would be the best answer... You do also have to consider the whole point of a deterrant such as this, and its use not only now, but in the future. There is an entire discussion here alone.



4: Stop smoking breaks. If seven smokers take four 15-min breaks in a day, that equates to a full time job!?

Smoking breask should NEVER be allowed. However, if smokers use their "normal" breaks to smoke then there is no issue. The problem comes when a person who smokes works less than someone who doesn't just because of their habit. An employer should not have to cater for a smoker not working, just as they would not allow a non-smoker to step outside for "fresh air breaks"... In this case, it's not actually discrimating against smokers, but a case of discriminating against non-smokers... Sorry chuckles, but if you have a habit, you can deal with it on your own time...



5: The elderly face the possibility of paying and contributing to the cost of care homes. I believe it costs approx £40k per prisoner per year. Charge prisoners for their upkeep.

Considering that point 1 suggests removing pensions, it would be interesting to also extract more money from them! However, charging prisoners for their own upkeep is not as stupid as it sounds. My favourite would be to put them to work, you know, making number plates and doing laundry, all that sort of American stuff!



6: Let's have fewer local councillors.

Perhaps this should be lets have a few better councillors. Barnet council councillors recently voted themselves to have a 100% pay rise. Only after a severe backlash from residents did they decide to "take a vote" to return to their old pay... These people should not be allowed to make up their own rules.



8: Tax foreign vehicles using our roads.

As long as there is road tax, it should be a tax for everyone using the road. Customs / border patrol or whoever deals with this sort of thing, should charge per car per length of stay, to ensure that although there will be a charge it would not be prohibitive.



9: The Civil Service is ludicrously bloated. There are 525,000 employees, all on incremental pay scales that rise automatically. There are also hundreds languishing in non-jobs, because of the crippling cost of making them redundant. Civil servants have one of the most lucra- tive redundancy deals in the country. For example, a 46-year-old earning £40,000 who had been a civil servant for 25 years could enjoy a cash payment of about 6.2 years' salary on retirement, or around £300,000. Cutting this to one year's salary as redundancy payment would save £6bn over 10 years.

Whilst great on paper this is exactly the sort of thing which the government simply wouldn't be able to get around. Talk of job losses never seems to go down well, and will always reflect badly. Regardless of how much we can agree with the above.






I'll be back with more interesting ones later...

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 05:36:19 AM »
3: Scrap Trident.

You get to a point where you have invested so much time and money into something that it would be more of a waste to throw it away than carry on. I'm not certain if scrapping trident would be the best answer... You do also have to consider the whole point of a deterrant such as this, and its use not only now, but in the future. There is an entire discussion here alone.


True, but equally it is possible that people will continue to throw good money after bad when they'd be better off cutting their losses. The perception that "we've spent this much money already, we might as well carry on" is what screws compulsive gamblers over so much (and in fact in official parlance this behaviour is known as the Gambler's Ruin for this exact reason).
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Offline Killing Time

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 07:00:03 AM »
There are some interesting suggestions there, and also some obvious piss-takes.


Scrapping Trident is a no brainer.
Sorry, Oink, but wasting more money will not somehow magically make all the money we've already wasted suddenly return to the public coffers.
We don't need it, and it costs a frickin fortune. End of.

I'm generally in favour of simplifying and streamlining the tax system.
Road tax & petrol tax serve the same purpose, so just calculating how much you'd need to raise one in order to scrap the other would save a tonne of cash, both in admin and policing.
It also means that those people who use the roads most also pay the most.

Likewise there are also lots of other glitches in the tax and benefits system that need to be ironed out.
I'm a firm believer in the welfare state, but I tend to agree that the benefit system is heavily abused. Capping benefit cheques to a level which is fixed to the minimum wage seems like a very sensible idea.

Meh. There's a lot of total pap in there as well though.
Dropping out of the EU seems to be a serious and widely spread view, but I think if people realised how much we benefit from the trade links, even before you talk about the objective 1 funding that flows back into the UK, then they might change their tune.
The common agricultural policy needs a damn good kicking, however.

Dizzy

EDIT:
Did you not notice the suggestion that all Man U supporters should live within 10 miles of Old Trafford?
Or selling Cornwall?

Offline Ashman

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 08:04:57 AM »
55. Street lighting in towns and villages outside the main conurbations should be turned off between midnight and 5am.

No prizes for guessing what would happen to levels of street crime if this one were implemented...

80. There must be thousands of items languishing in government attics and cupboards that are not needed. Let's have a giant car-boot sale.

This one would probably cost more to set up than it would make through sales!

CM

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 08:08:45 AM »
Not street crime, accidents.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 09:22:30 AM »
Not street crime, accidents.

well, in fairness, cars come with headlights to stop that sort of thing... the purpose of street lights is to help drivers see pedestrians, they are also used for showing drivers road dangers, particularly of note when driving at speed (whcih is why you get street lights on motorways). unfortunately, you will note that the vast majority of this countries roads DO NOT have any street lighting anyway... and in fact, the presence of street lights is generally a sign that you are in, or entering a built up / urbanised area...

I'm pretty certain that this point is already in action.


Scrapping Trident is a no brainer.
Sorry, Oink, but wasting more money will not somehow magically make all the money we've already wasted suddenly return to the public coffers.
We don't need it, and it costs a frickin fortune. End of.

what I'm saying is that there was some reason for this program, and investments have surely been made for the long running program... With cut backs in the MOD budget hitting front line troops already, is it wise to both reduce our military "might" AND remove our military deterrant... ?? yes, we might not be at threat of war, but there could be arguement that this is BECAUSE of our military capabilities and deterrants...

It's one of those issues that you don't realise you needed until it's too late!?!



Quote
I'm generally in favour of simplifying and streamlining the tax system.
Road tax & petrol tax serve the same purpose, so just calculating how much you'd need to raise one in order to scrap the other would save a tonne of cash, both in admin and policing.
It also means that those people who use the roads most also pay the most.

Likewise there are also lots of other glitches in the tax and benefits system that need to be ironed out.
I'm a firm believer in the welfare state, but I tend to agree that the benefit system is heavily abused. Capping benefit cheques to a level which is fixed to the minimum wage seems like a very sensible idea.

I agree, on pretty much all of this...  I like the principle of scrapping road tax in favour of fuel duty... except that this will evidently end up hitting motorists one way or the other. The more you use roads, the more you pay for that use... of course, there are a number of problems with this too.


Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 09:24:53 AM »
There is no rational argument for maintaining Trident these days. It's a deterrent system based on the international political scene of over twenty years ago. It's a paperweight you could use to buy Polynesia

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 09:56:12 PM »
yes, we might not be at threat of war, but there could be arguement that this is BECAUSE of our military capabilities and deterrants...

Are you actually making that argument? I'd be rather disappointed if you decide to. You may have noticed the US, which has significant armed forces and a massive nuclear deterrent, hasn't actually been at peace for all that long between conflicts. Trident requires a submarine service to deliver it and requires US cooperation to service the missiles. The costs rapidly escalate with those factors. Basically, it really isn't necessary unless you consider NATO to be without worth. If the UK were attacked then the UK call call in NATO who, by treaty, would consider each of their nations equally attacked. Article five.
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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 10:30:45 PM »
As bad as smoking is, those that do it are irritable and unproductive if they don't get smoke breaks, it doesn't do any good to phase them out.  Furthermore, when people are squeezed like that they find ways to get around it (see: smuggling cigarettes across the US/Canada border to avoid tobacco taxes, and people everywhere sneaking snacks during work hours if they're hungry).
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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 10:53:10 PM »
From the 80, what we see is what was expected. Not mine so take from yours (oooh, teabagger argument!  ;) ). I don't smoke/drink/drive often so increase sin/fuel taxes. Street lights? Unnecessary. Cut foreign aid (the Americans like that one as well but look at the actual expenditure). How can prisoners complain if they're not let out on time and instead have to wait on paperwork? The nerve! The Welsh/English paperwork is a good one. Sorry people, it costs more to print individual paperwork than it costs to print the combined and ship it to both places. Free Vaccinations? That's a good idea. Not a bad one. It's to protect - YOU. Stop cutting roadside verges? Seriously, how long till people complain that they're not tended too or complain due to road closures due to fires?

It's just people complaining about things that don't affect themselves. Little thought. Little idea of the actual costs involved.
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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 06:41:10 AM »
Some of those are actual government plans. Stop doing repairs and clean up of local roads and parks and roundabouts and get local people to spend either money or time (or both) doing the work themselves.

Which is where I am confused. Why do we pay you taxes towards those things then? (Council Tax).


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.

Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 80 clever, and not so clever, ways to cut the UK defict.
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2010, 07:34:02 AM »
yes, we might not be at threat of war, but there could be arguement that this is BECAUSE of our military capabilities and deterrants...

Are you actually making that argument? I'd be rather disappointed if you decide to.

I'm not saying that I would approve of keeping Trident, nor scrapping it... to be honest I haven't formulated an opinion on the matter... You do make a very good point though, that NATO is supposed to protect against these things... Although, one does have to consider how effective this is in combating threats from terrorist organisations - given your own comments about the US.



Some of those are actual government plans. Stop doing repairs and clean up of local roads and parks and roundabouts and get local people to spend either money or time (or both) doing the work themselves.

Which is where I am confused. Why do we pay you taxes towards those things then? (Council Tax).

I'd have to agree with you here... If taxes are supposed to be used for something, then how can there be justification to get people to pay for them ... AGAIN!?!

The solutions would be:

+ remove the service; and thus the tax that applies to it (so you are no better off!?)

+ charge more for the service; whilst this might normally be through increased tax, there are lots of services which an authority provides which aren't payed for - in full - in this way... For instance, local authorities charge people for making planning applications, but the fees are far smaller than the cost of the work invovled... raising the fees to more realistic levels would help offset the difference. (Raising taxes is only really justifiable if there is a shortfall in tax for the service cost... and whilst this helps the governments bottom line, it doesn't help the peoples!)

+ charge for services which are currently free; although there is the danger of the councils also charging for services which are currently part of the tax you pay...

 


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