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Offline Calamity

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Improving the Astra Militarum
« on: March 8, 2015, 08:42:42 PM »
It's exactly as the title says.  ;)

To begin with I just wanted to share these simple fixes to get the ball rolling before I go into more complicated stuff.  Please tell me what you think!  :)

Elites:

Ratling Squads:
Give them Camo Gear (either as standard or as an upgrade), and the option for one of them to replace their sniper rifle with a Vox Caster.

Notes: Ratlings are among the weakest units in the game, and are often wiped out the moment anyone looks at them.  It makes sense to me that they'd take extra precautions.  They also struggle to enact on orders without being baby sitted, so giving them some help in that regard is good too.  They're intelligent enough to use a radio, and as scouts I figured that they'd need them more than anyone.

Fast Attack:

Armored Sentinel Squadrons and Scout Sentinel Squadrons
Increase their maximum squadron size to 5.

Notes: Sentinels are small, slow, fragile vehicles that struggle to compete with the other IG FA choices.  I think being able to field more of them is a start to making them more competitive.  Orks can take big squadrons of their light vehicles too so it's not without precedent.

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ Squadrons:
Reduce the cost of a standard Leman Russ to 130pts, and the cost of a Demolisher to 150pts.


Notes: I just think this is just a given.  Both these vehicles cannot fire their main weapons without greatly reducing their overall firepower which makes sponsons less useful to them.  It always struck me as strange that the tanks capable of firing all their weapons at once cost less than the ones that had to pick and choose what to shoot with, even if they are more powerful.  Talking with others, they seem to fear an Exterminator cannon far more than a battle cannon most of the time.  Also, they're supposed to be the most common models of their class, with the others being less common, specialized variants, so them being the cheapest makes sense from a fluff perspective.

Hydra Flank Tanks:
Give them Interceptor.

Notes: I think all dedicated anti-aircraft platforms should have Interceptor (and Skyfire, obviously), to represent their long range radar and scanners etc.  I understand why they didn't have it before but it's 7th edition time now.  ;)  In the movies, the attacking aircraft always have to wither a storm of AA fire before they come in to attack anyway so why not here?  I do worry about it being OP against light fliers but against most (like Storm Ravens and Flying MCs) Hydra's struggle to do serious damage so I think it's balanced.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #1 on: March 8, 2015, 11:39:23 PM »
For the most part it looks good. Especially on the ratlings.

The hydra, I'd like to see something other then interceptor. Perhaps something like what the original triarch stalker had. Tracer fire. If any shot from this weapon hits it's target, then all other shots this turn counts as tl.

So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #2 on: March 9, 2015, 04:19:34 PM »
For the most part it looks good. Especially on the ratlings.

Thank you!  It bugs me that a lot of IG units don't really have any options whatsoever, so I'm looking to change that.  I think having camo gear as a +2pts p/m option is fair, and having the vox as a free replacement for a single ratlings' sniper rifle is also fair.

Something else that I think needs work is their Shoot Sharp and Scarper rule.  It's characterful which is good and all but I find that with Ratlings, you find a good hiding spot for them and then you keep them there.  Moving them around generally isn't advisable.  I'd keep it but I think that it's not terribly useful overall.

The hydra, I'd like to see something other then interceptor. Perhaps something like what the original triarch stalker had. Tracer fire. If any shot from this weapon hits it's target, then all other shots this turn counts as tl.

Do you think they should have Interceptor in addition to any other new rules, or that they shouldn't have Interceptor?

Also, next up is the banners of the IG.  These have always concerned me because whilst Company Banners are useful, Platoon Standard are utterly useless.  And I have always said, if an item is so useless that it's not worth taking, then it might as well not exist.  And as banners should exist, the only solution is to fix them to make them worth taking.

So here's my fix to both banner types:

Platoon Standards:
Any friendly unit from Codex:Astra Militarum within 12'' of the Platoon Standard Bearer can re-roll failed Fear, Morale and Pinning tests.

Notes: Platoon Standards are described as markers for important rallying points and are proudly held aloft in the field.  Well, why not make them that then?  I think this new rule (well OK, lets be honest.  Borrowed special rule.  ;))makes them a useful alternative to a special weapon, and I'm sure that they can be priced to reflect that.

Regimental Standards:
Any friendly unit from Codex:Astra Militarum within 12'' of the Regimental Standard Bearer can re-roll failed  Fear, Morale and Pinning tests, and count as scoring an additional Wound for the purposes of calculating close combat results.  Multiple banner effects are not cumulative.

Notes: I looked at what Space Marine Chapter banners did for the inspiration for this.  It would be wrong to copy them exactly, as Space Marines are Space Marines, whilst the Guard aren't.  However, I feel that this is the next best thing.  It's also useful in both attack and defense.  Naturally the points will need changing.

What do you guys think?


Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #3 on: March 9, 2015, 09:22:45 PM »
For the hydra, I'd say tracers instead of interceptor. Makes it more fun to my mind that the hydra are basically painting a target in the enemy planes and saying, "Bring it down"


As for banners.... I've always thought they were a waste. Except for the death wing / raven wing ones. To often I see them as situational items that are easily bypassed.

Something I'd like to see guard have perhaps as a special banner, is one that allows units that ate falling back to do so towards the banner. If their fall back move would bring them into contact with the banker's squad, they regroup.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #4 on: March 9, 2015, 11:11:31 PM »
Astra Militarum suffers from having the absolute least mobility of any army in the game.

That's what makes them so utterly difficult to win with. If you move, you lose out on firepower if you're in a vehicle, or you get blasted to pieces if you're infantry in the open... and then your heavies are pooched.

Chimera are expensive, if you're using them as taxis. 70 points with a Dozer Blade, instead of 40 points for a Rhino with Dozer Blade. Both let you fire a pair of upgraded weapons from the top, but one costs a lot less and loses next to no firepower for moving 12".

This codex lost nearly all available means to gain pseudo-mobility, such as reliable outflank ability [Yay, Scout Sentinels!], infiltration [Ratlings, Yay!], and deep strike [Scions... Mediocre!].

The fix is to bring that back.

Harker should give out h-j's for his points cost, along with infiltrate, but that's not there. At the very least, a Dutch Rudder. Captain Al won me nearly every game of 6th edition that I played, where are you!? Vendetta, why can't you transport a full squad? I play tested you, you're the right points if I could drop a Vet squad out of you!

Failing that, I've been using Guard as allies to my Blood Angels, and dropping 3 pods with Melta CCS, Melta Vets, and Plasma Vets on the first turn. I sling orders around like nobody's business and it's awesome.

No plodding along for 3 turns trying to get somewhere. I'm there 1st turn, kicking nuts in a transport that's half the cost... and I never need to worry about my ride getting blown up before I get there.

Give Guardsmen access to a Drop Pod equivalent, and pretty much every worry goes away. Let two Sentinels ride a single pod. Give them transport capacity of 12, since G's are smaller than SM. It would basically kill off Scions, but who plays them anyway? [ ;) ]


To be honest, I'm not using Ratty's because they're not useful in my metagame. They could be 8 points each, and I still wouldn't use them, and while an even MORE improved cover save may be valid, a flamer / cc squad is still gonna roast / spit them.

Squad size isn't keeping me from using Sentinels. Overly expensive flyers are doing that, I just don't have the points. And since a Valk has no meaningful anti-air to protect the squad inside, I need something else to do that, so I buy a Vendetta and stick a cheap token unit inside to drop on an objective. 500+ points later... I don't need 5 Sentinels, I need more points. :(

Old timers already have LRBT's and Demolishers. I know, I had 2 before the new kit came out. If they were reasonably pointed, why would those old timers buy new tank kits? Make them expensive, so they go and buy some Exterminators and Eradicators. :P I agree the LRBT and Demo should be cheaper.

Hydra suffers from not being a Wyvern, when it gets down to it. What? The new kit is super-duper-mega-killy? [Yes, I've changed my stance on them, as I've moved away from platoons.] You'd have to make a Hydra pretty damned amazing to compete, kit wise, with a Wyvern, much less to make it compete on the tabletop. Hmmm, which one will I build? ;) Mostly, it needs AV 12 on the sides, and to pitch open topped. It just needs to be a little bit more durable. Getting rid of Skyfire's snap-shotting non-airbourne units would go a long way.

Standards should give +1 Ld to units within 6". Company Standards should do that, plus what they already do. I mean, is the +1 combat res supposed to be a joke? 'Cause I laugh everytime any one of the PCS members survives a round of combat.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #5 on: March 9, 2015, 11:31:48 PM »
For the hydra, I'd say tracers instead of interceptor. Makes it more fun to my mind that the hydra are basically painting a target in the enemy planes and saying, "Bring it down"

I'm open to the idea of tracer rounds, but I still think Hydras should have interceptor myself. 

As for banners.... I've always thought they were a waste. Except for the death wing / raven wing ones. To often I see them as situational items that are easily bypassed.

That is true.  And I think that is a shame, as they are very characterful.  With these rules, the +1 to combat results is pretty situational but the re-roll to fear, morale and pinning checks is always useful.

Another thing I want to address is IG commanders.  These are mostly just personal niggles though:

Commissars and Platoon Commanders:
Increase their Wounds characteristic to 2.

Notes:
I see Commissars and Platoon Commanders as second tier army leaders, in the same position as Marine Chaplains, Liberians, Ork Big Meks and Nobs etc.  And almost all those character types have 2 wounds and I just think that we should get in on that too.  It's not really a big deal either, as it won't make a huge difference to them.

Lord Commissars:
Give them Voice Of Command and increase their Initiative characteristic to 4.

Notes:
Lord Commissars are cool, but unfortunately at the moment they lose out to Company Command Squads in nearly every way.  By giving them VoC, they can be just that little bit more useful and won't be forced to be quiet just because there's a senior officer in the picture (I imagine that the SO wouldn't mind them directing troops most of the time).  The -I- bump is there because I believe that all Progenium raised Heroic level characters (Tempestor Primes, Inquisitors, Arbiter Judges, Sister Cannonesses and Lord Commissars) should have I4 to show that they are the absolute pinnacle of human ability, outclassed only by Astartes (and Assassins).  With that the LC becomes a semi decent fighter who can go toe to toe with minor enemy leaders in a fight but would still have to think twice about fighting a Chaos Lord or Dark Eldar Archon toe to toe.  Besides, how else could they learn to reach that WS level if they didn't win a few fights in their time. ;)

@ Spectral Arbor

Woah, a lot to take in there.  You've raised some very good points (especially about the IG's lack of speed) and I want to address them asap.  Just, not this late at night. :P

I have one suggestion to make for now though; the Warlord Trait Grand Strategy.  How about counting a whole Platoon as 1 unit for the purposes of it?  That would really bring back the Glory of Al'Rahem!

Speaking of him, him and Chenkov need brought back as CCS upgrades asap as well. :P

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 12:50:33 AM »
I'd like to see the hydra with a rule similar to the contemptor dread only interceptor.  If the hydra hasn't moved it gains interceptor until your next player turn.

Remove ordinance from the missiles on the Valkyrie. It can fire 4 weapons at a ground target or one and then snap fire at a flier? 
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 10:59:14 AM »
This is a small fix, but I'd like to see Orders able to be issued at *any point* during the shooting phase, rather than all at the beginning. I don't always *want* to shoot my infantry units first, and I find the rule pointlessly limiting.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 02:31:25 PM »
It seems to me that Captain Al would need to fill the role of a Company Commander, that gives outflank to his unit and one Platoon, as his warlord Trait. Most Codices are giving such broadly sweeping powers to their HQ's, so that makes sense to me too.

Alternatively, make it a paid upgrade [If Al is chosen] and allow infantry units to take Outflank for 10-15 points each, and vehicles to take it for 20-25 points each, maybe. That would shave the upgrade cost down for Captain Al, in whom paying 70 points for a platoon, regardless of size, never sat well for me. Maybe fewer points, if an entire Platoon takes it, like 5-10 for platoon squads and 10-15 for their Chimerae. It's very useful, especially on something like Vets or an Evil Mutt.

I think the initial limitation of forcing orders at the start of the turn was to enforce a fluffy idea that the grunts would get told what to do, and everyone else would then follow suit. I think it initially was also intended to be limiting in how well you could take advantage of those orders. Soooo many times I wanted to open a transport with someone before ordering FRF, SRF on the ejected unit. :(

Valks do need to have Ord removed from the missiles, they're just silly. Maybe change the MRP to a Multi-Laser like weapon, firing many S6 shots instead of the blasts? It would give them a measure of Anti-Air, while retaining their ground support role, and would then benefit from the many weapons it can bring to bear.

We could just get rid of the Vendetta by making the MRP's into a pair of 3-Shot Autocannons, like a certain abusable SM flyer. ;)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 02:33:58 PM by Spectral Arbor »

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 03:42:38 PM »
I'd like to see the hydra with a rule similar to the contemptor dread only interceptor.  If the hydra hasn't moved it gains interceptor until your next player turn.

Remove ordinance from the missiles on the Valkyrie. It can fire 4 weapons at a ground target or one and then snap fire at a flier?

I think that is a fair compromise.  If the Hydra remains stationary then it gains interceptor for it's autocannons.  I know some want them to be able to target ground units as well but I have to disagree.  They should remain specialized weapons.  We have plenty of solid ground fire units already anyway.

And yes, Hellstrikes need serious work as right now they are utterly useless.  I would say that they should either be given large blast, or have ordnance removed altogether and upgraded to ap 2.  Personally I'm in favor of the first one myself.  Which is more realistic?  What do real missiles function like?

This is a small fix, but I'd like to see Orders able to be issued at *any point* during the shooting phase, rather than all at the beginning. I don't always *want* to shoot my infantry units first, and I find the rule pointlessly limiting.


I completely agree.  It is pointlessly limiting.  They should be issued whenever the player feels like it.

About Chimeras, and the points Spectral raised:  There's two ways to fix them as far as I can see.  Either give them a points decrease, or upgrade their side armour to 12 and make them Heavy vehicles.

I raised the latter in an earlier thread.  If the Chimera had upgraded side armor and was a Heavy vehicle it would be able to function as a proper IVF, slowly trundling along whilst letting fly with all it's guns.  Chimeras kinda have to go slow anyway, to bring some of their firepower to bare.  So we might as well go whole hog with it.  This would also create a real distinction between the (relatively) fast moving Taurox and the Chimera.

Also, about Scions...I'm in two frames of mind with them.  Either remove them from the list and make them a stand alone army (controversial), or better yet, make them gain Objective Secured in a combined arms list.  That second one would instantly make them far more useful.

It seems to me that Captain Al would need to fill the role of a Company Commander, that gives outflank to his unit and one Platoon, as his warlord Trait. Most Codices are giving such broadly sweeping powers to their HQ's, so that makes sense to me too.

Alternatively, make it a paid upgrade [If Al is chosen] and allow infantry units to take Outflank for 10-15 points each, and vehicles to take it for 20-25 points each, maybe. That would shave the upgrade cost down for Captain Al, in whom paying 70 points for a platoon, regardless of size, never sat well for me. Maybe fewer points, if an entire Platoon takes it, like 5-10 for platoon squads and 10-15 for their Chimerae. It's very useful, especially on something like Vets or an Evil Mutt.

I'd definitely be in favor of Captain Al being a CCS upgrade with the Grand Strategy Warlord Trait, along with his fancy sword a rule called 'Desert Raider, where he gives MTC to units with 12''.  All that makes him double as a nice proxy Catachan leader as well.  Chenkov should also be a CCS upgrade, withe the Draconian Discipline Warlord Trait and the ability to recycle conscript squads like before.

I think the initial limitation of forcing orders at the start of the turn was to enforce a fluffy idea that the grunts would get told what to do, and everyone else would then follow suit. I think it initially was also intended to be limiting in how well you could take advantage of those orders. Soooo many times I wanted to open a transport with someone before ordering FRF, SRF on the ejected unit. :(

You and me both.  :P

Valks do need to have Ord removed from the missiles, they're just silly. Maybe change the MRP to a Multi-Laser like weapon, firing many S6 shots instead of the blasts? It would give them a measure of Anti-Air, while retaining their ground support role, and would then benefit from the many weapons it can bring to bear.

We could just get rid of the Vendetta by making the MRP's into a pair of 3-Shot Autocannons, like a certain abusable SM flyer. ;)

That's an interesting idea with the MRPs.  If I was to do it I'd make them range:24'', strength:4, AP:6, Type: Heavy 3+d3.  It would distinguish them more from the Hellfury missile too.

I understand why vendettas got the transport nerf myself.  I think they should go whole hog, ditch the transport altogether and make them full on gunships with even more weapons.  Hell, just bring in the Vulture, and give it the option to take twin-linked lascannons. :P

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2015, 01:21:22 PM »
My trouble with S4 out of the Valk is that it can't harm other flyers. Well, most flyers.

My reason for S6 was to allow glances on other flyers like Ravens and Drakes. It also gives them a decent chance to harm FMC. Even then, the FMC's probably rocking a 3+ save. :(

Anything less than S6 doesn't allow a flyer to fight other flyers / FMC. Well, S4 could hurt a Flyrant, with something like a 1/36 chance using Guardsman BS.

I strongly dislike random for the sake of random. Rolling a die to see how many dice you get to roll makes me very angry, as a player. It makes sense on Spawn, but nothing else really does it for me.

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2015, 01:48:21 PM »
For the Valkyrie, if you took ordinance off the missiles and allowed them to take 2 more for an extra 15 points you could have MRP and missiles giving you a versatile flyer for an extra 25 points or so. You would then be able to take 4 missiles and basically have a flying transport with decent anti-air capacity.
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2015, 02:47:39 PM »
My trouble with S4 out of the Valk is that it can't harm other flyers. Well, most flyers.

My reason for S6 was to allow glances on other flyers like Ravens and Drakes. It also gives them a decent chance to harm FMC. Even then, the FMC's probably rocking a 3+ save. :(

Anything less than S6 doesn't allow a flyer to fight other flyers / FMC. Well, S4 could hurt a Flyrant, with something like a 1/36 chance using Guardsman BS.

I strongly dislike random for the sake of random. Rolling a die to see how many dice you get to roll makes me very angry, as a player. It makes sense on Spawn, but nothing else really does it for me.

I think you're right.  OK, having gone back to the drawing board, and having closely looked at the model, how about:

Range:24'' Strength:6 AP:4 Type:Heavy Six.

Multiple short fused rockets with krak warheads.  Sound OK?

For the Valkyrie, if you took ordinance off the missiles and allowed them to take 2 more for an extra 15 points you could have MRP and missiles giving you a versatile flyer for an extra 25 points or so. You would then be able to take 4 missiles and basically have a flying transport with decent anti-air capacity.

I think it would be tricky to actually fit extra weapons onto the Valkyries wings, but that is what makes the Vulture function better as a dedicated gunship (it does have 2 weapon points per wing).

Are we all agreed, remove ordinance from hellstrike missiles?  No need to give them large blast or anything?

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 11:47:39 PM »
My only warning for the MRP alteration is that S6 AP4 starts ID'ing pretty much anything that isn't a Marine. Eldar, Tau, IG, that's a bunch of 2+ ID wounds that ignore their armour. Nid Warriors wouldn't like it much, but they're not what's scary these days anyhow. :)

I think AP 5 is probably more in the ballpark of fair. I was thinking more like up-powered Frag rounds. More force, but not more penetrating power. Shotgun instead of a rifle.


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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2015, 12:43:01 AM »
I'm now not so sure about changing the MRPs.  As it stands they aren't bad weapons really.  I think that it's actually the hellstrike missiles that really need the work done to them.  With tweaks they could make semi-decent AA weapons.

To be honest though, I'm happy for the Valkyrie to primarily remain a troop transporter with light weaponry (unless you keep the hellstrikes or give it a lascannon).  It's the Vendetta (or Vulture)  that should step up to be the Guard's dedicated gunship with AA capabilities. 

Oh, and this is a distraction from the aircraft issue (which I'm now realizing is a big part of the fix with the IG), but ordinary Tauroxes...I had this idea I wanted to run by you all.

For the ordinary IG version, how about the base model doesn't come with any weapons at all and so costs a measly 35pts...with the option to upgrade it to carry either a Twinlinked autocannon, or one of the Taurox weapons (the battlecannon, the gatling gun or the missile launcher) for a points increase.  Thus the player can spam a load of dirt cheap transports with objective secured if they wish.  Stick a heavy stubber on them if you want a little firepower.

Might be a bit silly that one though.   :P
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 12:47:24 AM by Tangi »

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2015, 07:51:15 PM »
Ok, for the hydra I would really feel it having interceptor would be rather broken. Now maybe this is me as a DE player speaking, but with its range and strength, it would dominate. 4 tl shots that reach basically the whole board.... No thanks. Especially when you can add 2 more into the battery. That'd be about 4 hits on lightly armored flyers, with a 3+ to do damage. My flyers have 2hp.... For a pretty low point cost you would almost entirely eliminate light flyers as support... Or force an enemy to come in mass flyer waves to counter, which tends to not be a lot of fun for anyone. Only way I'd say to give hydra interceptor would be to increase their points by 30 and not allow them to have more then one in a squad.

Now, for the valk and vendetta..... I think the valk should give up the missles altogether. Instead let it keep the mulit laser,  and give it two heavy bolters under the wings and a tail mounted storm bolter. Let the heavy bolters be able to be swapped for the mmp.

For the vulture I'd say, allow it to swap it's lascannons for multi-meltas at no additional cost. And drop all troop transport ability.

I'd also like to see a new missile either flyer can take for 35 pts per. 

Flack missile.
True to their form, the guard have figured that quantity has a quality of its own. This can be seen in their Flack missiles, which streak towards their target and then explode into a mass of small, ragged balls. These are designed to get stuck in engines, between tracks, and clog gun barrels and eye slots,disorenting and confusing
Rng -  48"  str - 4 A -  6 type - heavy 6, debris

Debris: any vehicle hit by this counts as being crew stunned, in addition to any other effects it may or may not suffer. This does not take a hull point unless the shot is also a glancing or perpetrating hit as well.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 12:46:56 AM »
@ faitherun

You have actually convinced me to now drop my desire for interceptor for Hydras.  I was worried that it would be broken and you've confirmed that.  Personally, I feel that there wouldn't be a problem if Interceptor only allowed snapshots but that is a whole other area of discussion.  :P

Also, about the fliers, it is a really big deal, I appreciate the thoughts on them and I am thinking about them too but in the meantime would anyone object if I just got a couple of smaller niggles out of the way?  Namely, priests and their crappy wargear options these days?

It's typical of GW, fixing one problem whilst creating another.  They gave Priests awesome rules in the 6th ed book but then scaled back all their equipment.  Probably another miniature issue involving that lawsuit.  But anyway, to help fix it here's my suggestion:

Priests come with flak armour, a rosarus, a laspistol, a close combat weapon and frag grenades as standard.  They may then choose to replace either their laspistol with one of the following weapons:

shotgun/autogun (free)
bolt pistol/boltgun (+1pt)
storm bolter (+3pts)
plasma pistol (+10pts)
combi bolter/flamer/melta/plasmagun (+15pts)
plasma gun (+15pts)
eviscerator (+20pts)

I don't have my codex on me right now so the points might be off but how does that seem to you guys?

Also, slight change to my Taurox proposals:

My suggestion is, make the basic Taurox a 30pt vehicle with a storm bolter (nicely included in the kit), and the storm bolter can be upgraded to a Taurox Battle Cannon/TL Gatling Gun/Missile Launcher or Twin linked autocannon for further points.  Say, +20 for the autos or cannon and more for the gatling gun or missile launcher.  That way normal IG players can enjoy those nice unique weapons that Tauroxs have, whilst also retaining the ability to now field them as dirt cheap rhino style battlefield taxis if they wish.  Meanwhile, Taurox Primes are still better because they are still faster with a better BS and have more weapons overall.  Any thoughts on that?

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2015, 11:51:07 AM »
Both the priest and taurox look fine to me. Most people just want to use the taurox as a tin can to deposit troops it seems, and those who want more firepower can still have it.

I've been thinking a lot about what you said earlier (I think it was you that said it)  that the main issue with guard is their lack of mobility and how that affects their firepower. What would you think of making an open top taurox?
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »
What would you think of making an open top taurox?

As long as it was substantially cheaper, then that would be fine. There really is no advantage to the AM to have an open-topped transport, given that nobody is assault-oriented (except Ogryns, I guess) and all their current transports have sufficient firepoints to make the open-topped feature suspect at best.

Now, if they were open-topped and fast, then you'd have my attention. Of course, then it isn't very AM-like.

I agree that the mobility thing is a weakness for the army, but I like Spectral Arbor's solutions better--more infiltrating or outflanking units, the option to grav-chute more guys in, etc.. You *can* do a bit of this will lots of Scions and using Valks, but the AM have a big problem with not being able to move.

The other option, of course, would be to improve their firepower to the point where they don't *have* to move too much. Make heavy weapons cheaper or more readily available, for instance, or make orders more plentiful or powerful. Hell, let orders apply to *vehicles* or have a vehicle that can issue other vehicles orders. That would make a huge difference.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving the Astra Militarum
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 03:01:56 PM »
Open topped transports wouldn't be that useful to the IG, unless it was one with a very large transport capacity (say, 20+) that could then function as a mobile firing platform for big combined squads.

I also think that Spectral Arbors solutions to the IG's lack of mobility is the best way to go.  More outflanking, infiltrating or deep striking etc rather than faster units.  It actually suits the IG very well, slow on the field, but due to it's massive size and probable orbital superiority, it's able able to 'envelope' the enemy and box them them in on a strategic level, if you catch my drift.

That's also an interesting idea about increasing firepower to make up for the shortfall in moving.  With that in mind, would my make Chimeras Heavy class be a good idea?

Also, I just want to put this out there...would Valkyries as Dedicated Transports be too much?


 


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