Topic: Not sure where to go with this 2k GK list

[Prophecy]

I wanted to build this list but I am unsure of the terminators. I was thinking of trading them in for 2 full strike squads with psy ammo and dropping the termie armor off the 2nd inquisitor to give him a conversion beamer.

Inquisitor & Purifier GK 2k List

Inquisitor Coteaz: 100 pts
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: w/ Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Psyker, and 2 Servo Skulls: 116 pts

6 Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm bolters & 6 psykers: 102 pts

10 Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm bolters: 70 pts

10 Grey Knight Terminators: w/ 2 Psycannons, Brotherhood Banner, & Psybolt ammo: 495 pts

Purifier Squad: 10 w/ 4 Halberds, 4 Pyscannons, and 2 Daemon Hammers: 300 pts
Purifier Squad: 10 w/ 4 Halberds, 4 Pyscannons, and 2 Daemon Hammers: 300 pts

Vindicare: 145 pts

Dreadnought: Two Twinlinked Autocannons w/ Psybolt ammo and Search Light: 136 pts
Dreadnought: Two Twinlinked Autocannons w/ Psybolt ammo and Search Light: 136 pts

Aegis Defense Line: w/ Quad Gun 100 pts
Total: 2,000 pts

[MortVader83]

 It seems to be lacking in scoring units for 2k and in mobility. I would change out one of the Purifiers squads for a fully kitted SS and a Rhino + SL for the other Purifiers. Or go sans SL on the rhino and pull the Quad-gun down to an Icarus LC, to add a couple of plasmaguns to one of the Henchman squads. The Vindicare + Icarus LC is a deadly combo that gives you a 3+ cover on him also.

[Prophecy]

I know that's why you put the henchmen in reserve and the termies to DS. This list isn't about being mobile and 2 rhinos in 2k is a great way to throw away KP's. If I saw only 2 rhinos on the board I would immediately target one for first blood and toss the squad out. So using your logic on the amount of troops. I should take 2 fully kitted out strike squads and just DS them both instead of the pimped out termies. I could also trade out the other inquisitor for some more henchmen.

[Greg23]

I love my 10 Grey Knight Termies w/ psybolt ammo and psycannons.  I wouldn't give them up for anything.  And the Ordo Mallus Inquisitor can deep strike with the unit, bonus!  What hth weapon load-out are you giving the Termies?  At least 1 Daemonhammer for every 5 models is a sound bet.  Once they arrive, a 10 man termie unit absorbs an insane amount of firepower, freeing up the Dreadnoughts to go more mobile.

Purifiers are very good but they are not scoring unless you take Crowe.  This can hamper you in certain mission scenarios.

I don't know if you are playing pick-up games with this list or playing tournament style with this list.  From experience, tournament style play is light on terrain and heavy on scoring objectives.  This can affect your list builds.

GKSS + Warp Quake + Coteaz + a shooty henchmen unit = any enemy unit that dares to use deep strike will suffer horribly.

For pure staying power, if you have the models, take 12 Henchmen Crusaders and make them mobile somehow.  Zoom to an objective, disembark, and sit on it for the rest of the game.  Bretonnian Men-at-Arms make for great massed Crusaders in a pinch.

If you can squeeze the points, go for a Land Raider Crusader w/ Psybolts and a Multimelta.  It's pure awesome sauce.

[MortVader83]

 No, First Blood will be earned off your Dreads instead the. Two AV12 vehicles are easy kills at 2k pts, even hidden behind the ADL. If you reserve that much of your army then they are the most obvious targets besides the irrascable Vindicare. With the Rhino you can hide it for cover, 12" move, and then pop-smoke or flat out it to the next piece of cover. Remember also that a dead rhino makes great cover too. This is a great way to deliver combat squaded Puri's for a Cleansing Flame double whammy, use the PC squad to toast a tank and send the normal guys after another soft target. Or keep them as a single.unit of killiness if it's a KP game.

 The changes I suggested would also add some bit to the Henchman incase they need to help kill somethin in your DZ when they come in. If Saguinary Guard or Termies got loose there then you'd be sore pressed to be of much good unless both squads came in at the same time. Keep the GKT as.they are very nasty. I like to go 3each DH, Halberd, and NFS when running a banner. This gives plenty of I6 and STR8-10 attacks with some 4++ still in CC.

[Prophecy]

Alright I have changed it again but I kinda took advice from both parties. I will address both people equally and then post the list once more with changes.

So with the Greg comments: I really like the fact you enjoy the terminators as I want to like them as something other than paladins. I will never pay the crowe tax as he is just annoying and wont see the light of day in my lists. I do realize terrain is light thus the Aegis Defence line that will be deployed as a line in order to maximize cover.I re-read the WQ ability and I must agree you are right and I could use some more troops as Mort has pointed out so I switched some purifiers to SS and made the henchmen squad you requested.

As far as the Crusaders with a Crusader you really need to build a list around the idea of them instead of rigging them into an established list. I love the idea but I would have to build a list from the ground up using this thought process.

So with the Vader comments: After incorporating the henchmen I saw your idea for the lascannon being a good one as Coteaz would be with them and I could use the squad to beat up on heavy targets. The likelihood I go first with Coteaz is higher than the average player so I really think I'm going to go first more often than not. The rhino idea does indeed work but I prefer it with 4 or more rather than 2. I do realize that if those mean units get into my lines it will suck a bit. But lets face it that would suck for almost any list. I like your idea with the terminators and will be going 3 each.

Pros of these changes: I get to use some different models I own and have something to deal with 2+ saves. I also get another squad that could DS if needed.

Cons of these changes: I do not own any jokero and would need to get some somehow. The terminators are also a small problem as I just need the bits to make the squad proper as I have metal Termies and havent bought into plastics. I would need a banner and perhaps some more metal CC weapons.

General Question: What weapon should the Ordo Malleus Inq use? Should it be the hammer or another force weapon? I believe I get to choose if it is an axe or whatever.

Inquisitor Coteaz: XXX pts

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: w/ Terminator Armour, Psycannon, Psyker, and 2 Servo Skulls: 116 pts

4 Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm bolters & 6 psykers: 88 pts

3 Servitors w/ Plasma Cannons, 2 Jokaero, 4 Warrior Acolytes w/ Storm Bolters: 158 pts

10 Grey Knight Terminators: w/ 2 Psycannons, Brotherhood Banner, & Psybolt ammo: 495 pts

Strike Squad: 10 w/ 2 Pyscannons, and Psybolt ammo: 240 pts

Purifier Squad: 10 w/ 4 Halberds, 4 Pyscannons, and 2 Daemon Hammers: 300 pts

Vindicare: 145 pts

Dreadnought: Two Twinlinked Autocannons w/ Psybolt ammo and Search Light: 136 pts
Dreadnought: Two Twinlinked Autocannons w/ Psybolt ammo and Search Light: 136 pts

Aegis Defense Line: w/ Icarus Lascannon 85 pts

Total: 1,999 pts

[MortVader83]

 This list looks much more rounded and should be pretty efficient. SB Acolytes with 2x Jokeros are nice and so is the OM Inq. in TDA. Unfortunately you have little choice in his force weapon as it only allows you to replace the DH with a normal force sword. Take the hammer.

 I converted my previous generation of metal terminators to swords and hammers pretty easily. I made rough molds of Coteaz's hammer end to get the basic shape, pressed them out of GS and embelished them a bit with spare purity seals and some carefully carved =I='s. These you can put on halberd ends
after loping the blades off. Swords are easier if you don't have the metal models as the new kits come
with plenty of swords. If you have none pm me. As for the Jokero, I use older Techmarines in robes made of GS to represent tech-savants and use them as counts as Jokeros. These fit better fluff wise when I run an OX Inquisitor too.

[Prophecy]

I was thinking of just replacing the entire arm when it comes to the hammers on both the termies and PAGK. I have seen some conversions and by shaving off the 2nd hand on the hammer for the PAGK they look completely fine when being held by only one and glued to the metal. I just wanted to minimize the plastic use without having to chop stuff up on the metal. I do have enough extra justicar swords to make a PAGK SS with the 2 psycannons and swords....I think. (Another reason I like Purifiers)

I do have some techmarines from the old skullz promotion. Do you think people would mind as they are imperial guard sized and do come with fun weapons and cloaks.

That is a shame on the Inquisitor. I could have sworn it said force weapon but I was staring at some BA rules as well and I guess I just wanted it to say that. I will just stick with the hammer which is cool. With the brotherhood banner the force ability is always on and I would get 4 hammer attacks base which is boss plus doesn't the hammerhand from the squad lend him +1 str? Thus he would have 4 str 7 attacks.

[MortVader83]

 Hammerhand takes effect before the 2x STR from the hammer so he is str8 actually. I have never had any problems with using the Techs as Jokeros, even in tournaments. Most people tend to agree on the 'purity' of it too. If you want I can post pics of my SS & GKT with the hammer and sword conversions, they look pfretty stock even.

[Greg23]

There probably tons of builds you can make with the OM Inquisitor and a 10 man termie squad.  3 psycannons, amazing hth weapon options, psybolt ammo, plus the Inquisitor can take L1 Divination psychic powers.

The Banner doesn't auto activate the Inquisitor's DH in the way you might think, unfortunately.  Since the Inquisitor is an independent character, if the banner was used to activate the GK Termie force weapons, he'd be left out in the cold.  RAW page 54 of the Grey Knight Codex.  The unit as a whole, plus the Inquisitor, will still get the attack bonus.

But if you wanted to build the 10 man terminator squad w/ the Inquisitor as a deep strike fire base, that would be insane.

8 Psybolt stormbolters + 3 psycannons + Prescience = A bad day for any enemy.  That's 28 shots, a decent portion of shots being potentially anti-tank/anti-monstrous creature/anti- 2+ save. 28  shots w/ Prescience  is anti-horde on it's own.

Deepstriking is so much more forgivable in 6th ed.  Pre-measuring and armor saves on dangerous terrain tests really make deep strike terminators massively efficient.

[MortVader83]

 Actually Greg you need to read pg. 62. The Inquisitor is still part of the 'unit' and would activate his weapon seperately.

[Greg23]

RAW with Brotherhood of Psykers, if the Banner was used to activate a Terminator NFW, the Inquisitor would be left out in the cold, even if he joined the unit.  He's still an IC, so he needs to activate his own weapon with his own warp charge.

The good new is that he still get the attack bonus.  Also, if push comes to shove, the Inquisitor can "auto-activate" his force weapon with the banner if either the GK terminators burn their warp charge the old fashion way by rolling dice for their NFW or don't activate their NFW at all, e.g. Hammerhand.

More good new, the banner can activate any force weapon, not just NFW.

Now for the bad new. 

If an Inquisitor takes the L1 Psyker upgrade, he must take a vanilla force weapon.  RAW No exception.  That means either the Daemonhammer is going away or the psycannon/stormbolter goes away.

If the Inquisitor deep strikes w/ a unit of termies, he has to wait a turn to activate a Divination Power, RAW BRB page 67.

Still, not a bad bet. Since the GK Termies can load up on their own Daemonhammers, I'd leave the OM Inquisitor shooty.

Holy cow, this still looks very beefy on paper.  A fully loaded OM Inquisitor is way less expensive than a GK Grand Master, Brother Captain, or even a Librarian, and adds a definitive punch to any Grey Knight unit.  I'm going to have to try it out myself.

[Prophecy]

Man not being able to activate the divination on the turn I drop really grinds my gears I thought I could activate it any point in the phase but I guess not. I also don't like the fact I lose the hammer. It just doesn't seem right. I know by RAW you are correct but taking less powerful items is just lame.

Please try out the unit or even the whole list I really am curious how it works someone elses hands.

[MortVader83]

 The  Banner has no bearing on the Inq. lack of BoP. He is in the unit. If he chooses to activate his Force Weapon then it does so per the Banner's special rules. His activation is the same whether or not the BB is present. Also, read the FAQ/Errata(pg.1 right-hand column 4th entry) as they changed the wording on the Inquisitors last bullet point. You get the choice of replacing a weapon with a Force sword or not. Additionally you don't have the 'option' to roll for the units force power activation. It oasses automatically.

 I run the OM Inq load out a lot. He rocks, plain and simple. He is cheaper than a GM or Librarian but is nowhere near the force multiplier either of them are. I absolutely love Grand Strategy and PML3 Librarians. At 2k I usually run both. GM leading an assaulting unit and Libby protecting my backfield. I only run the Inquisitors in lower points games usually.

 

[Prophecy]

Yeah I think one shouldn't spend 400 on HQ but they are cool. I'm a fan of almost all the HQ options it's just that I don't think I need either of them to pull off the effect I am hoping for. I'm glad you two are arguing details it just helps cement ideas and tactics for me. Also rules and other things are helping me in general.

[MortVader83]

 I use some pretty odd tactics that pretty much just suit my playstyle. Example, I like 10 man SSs in a LRC with a OM Inq and TM. This just messes up so much stuff in the enemy DZ. I like smaller numbers of units armed to the teeth with my GK.

[Guildmage Aech]

If an Inquisitor takes the L1 Psyker upgrade, he must take a vanilla force weapon.  RAW No exception

I advise checking the current FAQ (first page under errata), its optional to take the forceweapon. Although there is no discount to not taking it.