40K Online
Main => Rules and Announcements => Topic started by: Rasmus on December 15, 2004, 06:21:46 AM
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Swearing and abusive language.
to start by quoting the rules
a) Please do not use racist slurs, prejudiced comments, profanity, or derogatory statements.
b) Swearing is censored to the best of our efforts, but your co-operation is of utmost importance in these matters.
c) Evading the censor by adding asterisks, or purposefully misspelling words to evade the censor is considered a higher offence than swearing normally, do not do this.
and
Our community consists of players of all ages and from all walks of life, and that includes teenagers, and even some pre-teens. That said, we would like to see less swearing on our boards, including: @#%$, pissing, tuna melt, Oh Sh*t, F**k the questions, WTF, etc. Sure, these are 'acceptable' words (because they are censored) and some even said on TV, but it doesn't mean they're right.
And to clarify.
This site is for gamers, and gamers come in all sizes. The oldest are really old (geezers) while the youngest have hardly gotten through their first grades in school. This is why we do not allow abusive or offensive language, not to upset anyone. This also includes racial and sexists slurs, as they are aimed at hurting people. Also posting personal attacks is unacceptable. If you disagree with someone; fine. You can disagree as much as you want to, but you can’t resort to personal attacks against the person you are disagreeing with.
It is just not the way to resolve anything.
We want this to be a pleasant place for everyone, but some people resort to abusive language as they run out of proper things to say. This is where we, as a Community, must do something. There are two basic things and a helper for this.
1. Do not use, encourage the use of, or provoke anyone by using abusive language. If anyone is swearing at you it does not grant you leave to do the same back. You are just stooping to a lower level, and your offense will be the same. There is no "But he started it!"-defence here. Just control yoruself.
2. If you see anyone using abusive language, or feel that you have been slurred unjustly (in most cases it is unjustly) then, instead of commenting and biting back, use the "Report to moderator"-button at the bottom of the post. This will notify the moderator on watch, and the offender will be handled according to the severity of the breach of rules he/she/it committed.
The helper is an auto-censor that constantly sweeps the boards looking for abusive language and censoring it. This is not ancroaching on your freedom of speech, as you have agreed to follow the rules when you sign up here, and the rules prohibit the use of abusive language. You will be cencored; it is automatic, and your post will look like utter garbage, since the censor is not a nice thing. It doesn't care if you are swearing because you feel entitled to it, or just flaming away at someone because you have run out of things/arguments/proper comments. It will censor you anyway.
Now you are aware of this, and if you have any questions or comments please feel free to either respond here or PM me, and I will answer as best I can.
Thank you for your time.
Addendum: - Incidentally, to view profanity in all it's glory (i.e turn off the auto-censor for viewing posts) you need to access your Profile (button is at the top of the page) and click on the Look and Layout Preferences option in the left sidebar. Check the 'Leave Words Uncensored' box to turn off the censor. Note this only applies to you viewing posts, other people with the option still off will always see your swear words censored still. This option ensures that if you like swearing, you can have it without upsetting those people who do not like it. - Lom ;)
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I preferred the old "[I swear too much]" system myself but the new one's pretty funny ;D
Don't worry, I'm not going to abuse this one like I did last time.
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Though if you do not like the censor system, there is an option to turn it off in your profile the last time I looked...
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Hmmmm i understand the abusive part, but what if someone just slipped a "non-fighting" word in their statement. Would that still be considered an offence? even if it's not targeted at anyone?
I'm just asking out of curiosity, not of want to express myself in vulgar language. :)
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Well, I'd imagine you'd want to avoid it if you could. Anyway, I like the new swearing censors. They'll likely make for some interesting posts in the future.
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Hmmmm i understand the abusive part, but what if someone just slipped a "non-fighting" word in their statement. Would that still be considered an offence? even if it's not targeted at anyone?
I'm just asking out of curiosity, not of want to express myself in vulgar language. :)
The differene is to use a word to express an opinion forcefully, and to use the same word just to be abusive. We might tolerate the former, but will never tolerate the latter. The censor, however, never casres eitherwhichway, it just hacks the words to pieces.
Basically don't swear, because if you do you are treading a very fine line. Sometimes you might be in the clear, but there is no point in pushing your luck. Ok? :)
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Haha you are right! I'm leaving the censor on, it's just too funy ;D
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why was my beslubbering post deleted?
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Because it was just spam. I sent you a PM about it.
And no swearing, please.
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am I the only one who finds the fact he swore in the Swearing thread, hilarious?
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And him obviously.
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I'm glad I have found how to turn that bloody-stupid thing off. As well as buggering up my fluff, it was pissing me off more than a Guard Noob ever could. ;)
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Is there any way to see the results of the censoring without actually swearing (i.e. see the autocensor's "naughty word" list and its corresponding 'censored word' list?
If not, I'll just edit this post to contain every swearword I can think of before changing it back.
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Is there any way to see the results of the censoring without actually swearing (i.e. see the autocensor's "naughty word" list and its corresponding 'censored word' list?
If not, I'll just edit this post to contain every swearword I can think of before changing it back.
No there is no such way at present. Such a list would undoubtably result in people not using the listed words, but others. This is not the end-effect we are looking for.
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And don't do it, guys. Even this Mod got burned trying to work out what happens if you swear - you get hit with a big stick! Snicker, giggle! :lol: :D
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With due respect, Farseers, and all alike i do not mean to be repetitive, however I just wanted to put the emphasis of this matter. If you cannot handle youself by swearing then I honestly do not see why you are here. If it is as such, i aggree, There are too many people with a very wide range of age here.
As the Great Farseer's have already Said, just dont do it. Do not disrespect yourself by doing so. You would not want to be chopped up by the administration now would you not?
Again sorry for ranting.
Master Galiver
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Hey Rasamus... I would like to point out that the language these "kids" speak on their bus and amongst themselves would probably turn your touchy, kung-fu, virgin ears inside out. :'( But hey, thats just an observation.
Potty mouth is WRONG. And knowing is half the battle!
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That does not mean that it should be encouraged or empowered here. Quite the contrary, by taking the "higher road" we are setting an example for everyone, not just the kids, to keep the language civil, and the discussions the same.
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Since when is censorship a "higher road?"
Teaching kids that freedom of speech is bad and should be prevented is far worse than letting them see a collection of anglo-saxon words (Most "swear" words are just the anglo-saxon versions of words, the latin derivatives are considered fine.)
Then again, we are a private organization and can do what we like, and one can turn it off, but I still don't like it.
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Since when is censorship a "higher road?"
The higher road in this instance is setting an example for all to follow, rather than booting out thos who cannot abide by those standards.
And there is no freedom of speech here. This is a private enterprise and the rules are set by the owner (Raine) and staff. If you don't like them you are free to leave, but do not suffer delusions that this is a democracy. :)
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As much as freedom of speech is a good thing, you have to think about what happens if kids use words they learned here in front of their parents.
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There is not a lot to think about actually; I get the emails from those parent. :)
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What about "innocent" swearing, such as someone from "SBoy Snide's Outrageously Shiny Leather and PVC clad Soul Trainhorpe"?
EDIT: Man that censor is hilarious!!
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No mod is going to get on your back if a name or word contains a swearword, but isn't a swearword in itself. If you find it makes the censor a problem, you can easily turn it off in your profile and be ignorant as to why everybody is laughing at what you're saying ;)
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Is it against the rules to put pointless stuff that you have done on this site to see if people like it. I wrote an article on the Greater Good and what me and my friends do and the Mods said it was pointless and just locked it.
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You didn't write an article, and it wasn't about the Greater Good. You made a thread (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=130744.0) about something you do at school whenever someone mentions "greater good."
A complaint like this should be made in a PM, or posted in the forum rules thread (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=165.100) asking why the thread was locked, or even inquired about in Suggestions, Questions, and Comments (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?board=8.0) forum.
It's also against the rules to hijack a thread, or post apart from the topic of a given thread, and to dig up old threads without adding something useful.
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Hi,
I applaude your stance on maintaining a standard here and believe that this Web site is just another form of public information, available to all and should be respected by all.
Swearing to me is a double edged sword that can be used to cut deeply or can be used to calm the waters in an attempt of humour. But therein lies the problem, you can never predict how it is accepted and its intention can never really be verified by the reader. Most swearing I find comes about because the person lacks the abilty to choose the correct words in the heat of the moment and they rarely mean exactly what was said, again the intent can come into question.
Everytime I hear this type of language used I discount that person and the sincerity of their coments. giving their views far less credence than if they bumbled through sentences like an amateur but made a more genuine effort to communicate in a two way fashion.
Swearing raises the ante and the antics that people are willing to lower themselves to in order to "win" a point or hammer home an argument based on tonality not content.
This sledgehammer approach will never win over the more reasonable person in any debate and at best is a waste of time for all those subjected to it.
Cheers.
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We have a "swear filter", but remain free to use "gay" as a synonym for "stupid".
Riiiiiight.
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Gay isn't a swear word, it's derogatory slang for a homosexual, and it actually means 'happy'.
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We have a "swear filter", but remain free to use "gay" as a synonym for "stupid".
Riiiiiight.
As Khemri said, gay has perfectly acceptable meanings other than the derogatory one. Therefore it would be foolish to include it in the swear filter. And no, you do not remain free to use "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". If you come across such usage of the word, it is your responsibility to report the offending posts to the moderators. We have that button for a reason. Homophobia will be cracked down on when we find it.
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So will a few other things, mind you. Racism is not tolerated here. And no, you cannot hide behind your "free speech"-right either. This is not a public space. This is a private party where you are to respect the rules or be escorted out.
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English Language man away!
Gay isn't a swear word, it's derogatory slang for a homosexual, and it actually means 'happy'.
Gay really isn't derogatory. If it was you'd find a lot more homosexuals objecting to its use, rather than using it to refer to themselves. And no, it used to mean happy, but these days it does indeed mean homosexual.
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It can be derogatory in context. Which is how most of such words work.
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Just something I notice while lurking on the boards, that a moderator will point out certain use of language in a thread and not others. That it has a meaning of a non-derogatory nature, that's both obvious and clearing not what I was talking about; arguing that it should not be on a banned words list because it has an alternative meaning is also a little flawed in that people are far more inclined to use a word for it's popular connotation: people who mean "happy" say "happy".
Gay really isn't derogatory. If it was you'd find a lot more homosexuals objecting to its use, rather than using it to refer to themselves. And no, it used to mean happy, but these days it does indeed mean homosexual.
The phenomenon of "ownership" of a derogatory term by the slurred group.
At any rate, I feel suitably chastised (ha ha) and this thread may now continue on it's regular course.
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Just something I notice while lurking on the boards, that a moderator will point out certain use of language in a thread and not others.
Because the mods aren't watching every post in every thread, they rely on other people to report anything offensive and thus bring it to their attention.
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Are we allowed to say (naughty, naughty word Mr.!)?
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Well, if its a naughty naughty word, then I assume not.
Mr.Squid
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If you feel the need to swear then do so. Use the actual word(s) and not a half arsed attempt to disguise the word using @ % & etc in place of letters. We have a swear filter for a reason (which can be individually turned off) and so trying to avoid the swear filter gets the wrong sort of attention.
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What does the filter do to the "text" *nudge nudge, wink wink*.
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It changes the text to another set phrase. I have it turned off as seeing such words doesn't cause me to burst into flame or turn into a complete gibbering beslubbering idiot.
There's an example for you.
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I think its good that people are sensoring swearing. My twelve year old brother looks and reads threads a while ago i was asked by him what beslubbering meant and i told him it was the senor blocking people from swearing. So keep up the good work.
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Actually, it means to slobber all over something. The fact it's the censor just makes it more fun.
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I was wondering what it ment so thank you.
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I'd like to point out that bastard (and yes I know it has connotations to do with wedlock, but amphetamine parrot also has connotations to do with faecial excretement) is not filtered and perhaps should be.
Razyus
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I'd like to point out that bastard (and yes I know it has connotations to do with wedlock, but amphetamine parrot also has connotations to do with faecial excretement) is not filtered and perhaps should be.
Razyus
This is actually being debated at the moment amongst the Staff and the swear filter is probably going to recieve an overhaul with words being added/taken away and 'beslubber' and the like being changed to something else (though still of course random :P).
~MTWC
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I agree with bastard, but I don't think amphetamine parrot is serious enough to be filtered, kinda like damn.
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I agree with bastard, but I don't think amphetamine parrot is serious enough to be filtered, kinda like damn.
Damn is actually filtered (kind of) at the moment (though you need to prefix it with 'God'), which was one of the things that prompted the debate.
~MTWC
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amphetamine parrot should stay cencored. Its a pretty bad word in the us. Cencored from tv.
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It's hardly a bad word. It was but certainly isn't any more. "Bloody" used to be censored on television. Times change.
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I couldn't understand one of Rasmus' posts, because the censor put 'lycra clad pixie' everywhere, when i put the censor off, it seemed that the word which was censored was freshwater ???
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Are you sure it wasn't 'saloutrageously sexy lycra-clad pixieer', which gives you: saloutrageously sexy lycra-clad pixieer.
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Yeah, That one :-[
sorry, still waking up
why is outrageously sexy lycra-clad pixie censored? I always thought of it as an 'entry level' swear word
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You just answered your question. It's a swear word.
Razyus
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Everyone is just better off listening, yeah I know at times those words may seem needed, but they aren't, plus that's why there's the filter! ::)
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Protip: the filter can be turned off anyway. Go to USER CP --> Look & Layout Options --> Check the box: "Leave words uncensored."
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Protip: the filter can be turned off anyway. Go to USER CP --> Look & Layout Options --> Check the box: "Leave words uncensored."
Yeah but that makes idiots with anger problems sound so much less funny.
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Protip: the filter can be turned off anyway. Go to USER CP --> Look & Layout Options --> Check the box: "Leave words uncensored."
Yeah but that makes idiots with anger problems sound so much less funny.
Agreed, the filter makes for fun reading :)
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If I may ask, what on gods green earth is an amphetamine parrot?
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Its a swear filter... :-\
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Its a swear filter... :-\
No kidding? ::)
I ment more of, what possesed them to use amphetamine parrot to replace the word it is filtering? And what exactly is an amphetamine parrot?
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Its a swear filter... :-\
No kidding? ::)
I ment more of, what possesed them to use amphetamine parrot to replace the word it is filtering? And what exactly is an amphetamine parrot?
It means excrement.
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I think he means what it means, not what what it is censoring means (if that sentance makes any sense). In which case it doesn't really mean anything, Lom (I think) just put it in there as a random word/phrase.
It's not the most bizzare by far though, two of the 'phrases' we use to censor are 'Boy Snide's Outrageously Shiny Leather and PVC clad Soul Train' and 'outrageously sexy lycra-clad pixie', the former of which I think was lifted from FMG.
~MTWC
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These words also change periodically, whenever the staff gets inspired. The old "tuna melt" and "doggy-bag" was in a former incarnation of the filter.
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Amphetamine is a stimulanthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine)
and Parrot is a type of bird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot)
and yes, Lom was responsible for this one, as well as beslubber IIRC
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Cool. I was just curious :)
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i used to swear with my friends using kitchen appliances, sounds funny and other people do not have aclue what we are saying.
something like you low flying toaster,sieve head or lettuce wipper, and it is good for creativity. ;D
can we suggest filter words? ;D
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Well, you are free to post suggestions in the Suggestion-forum. We are not in the works of changing the filter at this time though. However, if this comes up, a topic will be opened in the Suggestions-forum about it.
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Well, you are free to post suggestions in the Suggestion-forum. We are not in the works of changing the filter at this time though. However, if this comes up, a topic will be opened in the Suggestions-forum about it.
Actually we were (dicussing it amongst the staff that is), comments on it just died out after it become a censorship debate ¬¬.
~MTWC
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Just checking, are we allowed to use in-universe cursing such as Feth, Gak and the like?
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Sure. The cool kids say "beslubber" though. ;)
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It is widely discouraged though, as it tends to just lead down a very dark road filled with censors, angry PMs to moderators and emails from parents.
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It is widely discouraged though, as it tends to just lead down a very dark road filled with censors, angry PMs to moderators and emails from parents.
how about Batllestar gallactica widely used frak? ;D
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Which of course is quite daft as 'beslubber' has retained the same form for a good 1000 years now and the best cusses (funnily enough mainly old Saxon words too) aren't likely to bugger off anytime soon.
At least 'smeg' couldn't possibly sound like ol' F no matter how much you squinted at it
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Use your judgement. Avoid things like Groxshat or Eldarfucher.
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Bah I prefer good olde tamil alternatives of "I wish you would get syphillis" or "May your wife have a perpetual headache".
Far superior to anything english.
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Ah, of course, the real curses. A lost art, disappointingly.
"None of your aunts for seven generations have had noses!"
- Kipling, Kim
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While we're dusting off beslubber and taking it out for a spin...
I always liked the old Bard's Tale I's "Deth and Drek! You cry as a pack of kobold cram your newly made party's collective heads up somewhere hurtful" as you make a quick run to the shop for some armour and weapons.
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I'm confused.. I read the first post, first and second page, and skimmed the rest-- but this is perplexing.
"Addendum: - Incidentally, to view profanity in all it's glory (i.e turn off the auto-censor for viewing posts) you need to access your Profile (button is at the top of the page) and click on the Look and Layout Preferences option in the left sidebar. Check the 'Leave Words Uncensored' box to turn off the censor. Note this only applies to you viewing posts, other people with the option still off will always see your swear words censored still. This option ensures that if you like swearing, you can have it without upsetting those people who do not like it. - Lom"
Why do we have the option to DISABLE swearing, if we keep getting told not to swear? Like Yoda was told by Rasmus, "please no swearing." (Unless there's some satire there that I'm missing because I'm not a prominent member of the community with thousands of posts and I don't recognize inside joke Internet sarcasm. :P)
So are we allowed to swear, and just let the filter get it? Or should I stifle myself? I'm not the rebellious type; I just like to know my limitations.
Thanks!
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You can swear if you want, just don't try to censor it yourself, that's what the auto censor is for.
So, write beslubber all you want, just don't write f**k.
The reason being that the censor won't get the latter, and young'ns can still see the implied swearing, whereas the censor makes it a little more family-friendly.
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And even with the censor, there is no point in going overboard. The words are used rightfully in some places (most notably the Space Tavern, for some reason) but we don't want constant cursing on the boards, in normal civic conversation. That is just right out.
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Mr. Peanut has a bad avatar. It says the a word!
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I would die without my ass. I use it to plow the fields. Squigley reads Ass Monthly for critical updates on plow technique and mule upkeep.
Also, do not use profanity-equivalents, since the auto-censor will take care of that for you. If you do not wish to have text reinterpreted with censored words, you may turn it off in your User Control Panel (words will appear in their original form).
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Um...is all I have to say. I prefere to keep my ass in my pants, not plow feilds with it.
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Um...is all I have to say. I prefere to keep my ass in my pants, not plow feilds with it.
Oh for the love of... ass is another word for donkey
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Now, arse, on the other hand, is something you don't plough a field with.
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Are we allowed to swear in languages other than english?
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Are we allowed to swear in languages other than english?
I'm going to guess that it goes against the 'only speak Ingerish' rule
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Which is why we HAVE the only speak Engleesh rule. :P
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Technically, no, you're not allowed to swear in other languages. Naturally, most of them will go unnoticed until another speaker of that language notices it or it is added to the auto censor.
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Or if you use Japanese, which 90% of nerds know enough of to cotton onto anyway.
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It should also be said that we do have a significantly multinational staff as well as overly inquiring minds so "strange words" would be researched if not already known. The more work required to find the meaning would entail harsher punishment for those who tried it on. ;)
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It should also be said that we do have a significantly multinational staff as well as overly inquiring minds so "strange words" would be researched if not already known. The more work required to find the meaning would entail harsher punishment for those who tried it on. ;)
Spoken like a true dictator.
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Oh Yoda, you have no idea. A true dictator would have stated "no, as i said so." Actually offering a rationality as well as a means of questioning the rationality shows we are all truly enlightened and are an aspiration for the future of humanity. Even Star Trek could not imagine how embracing and all encompassing a civilisation is 40Konline.
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... shows we are all truly enlightened and are an aspiration for the future of humanity.
I weep for mankind.
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It should also be said that we do have a significantly multinational staff as well as overly inquiring minds so "strange words" would be researched if not already known. The more work required to find the meaning would entail harsher punishment for those who tried it on. ;)
Right now, I'm fighting very hard NOT to try and see which Afrikaans/Zulu/Tswana swear words take the longest to figure out :)
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Right now, I'm fighting very hard NOT to try and see which Afrikaans/Zulu/Tswana swear words take the longest to figure out :)
Just think about how you'd be in Muted purgatory for much, much longer. 8)
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I would like you guys to know that 40kos word filter has affected the way I think and write.
I just typed "beslubbering" in place of a choice swear word on another forum :)
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We are happy to improve your vocabulary in this manner. :)
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We are happy to improve your vocabulary in this manner. :)
Now if only 'amphetamine parakeet' was something more generally useful. But yes, i too have found myself typing 'beslubbering'.
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I was having so much fun trying to figure out what the censor was standing in for...
I think it's hilarious. I'm almost tempted to try it out myself... but I don't swear >.>
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So whats the word limit?
I don't even consider the word "ass" swearing. So are the F, S and C word allowed?
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So whats the word limit?
I don't even consider the word "ass" swearing. So are the F, S and C word allowed?
Just because you do does not mean the general veiw is that it is not a swear word. All of those would be swear words, so... swearing rules apply.
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So whats the word limit?
The simple rule is; "If a morally conservative parent of a 9-yearold browsing this forum could take offence at it - it is a swearword". So, if anyone could consider it foul language, it is. We are going for the lowest possible level without entering anything absurd here, for simplicity's sake.
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It's worth noting we have a (humorous) auto-censor to handle swear-words though. It's far more entertaining (and makes more sense from a 'not encouraging swearing' point of view, at least as far as I'm concerned) than just adding an asterix or two, since then you can still easily tell someone's swearing (which defeats the entire point of trying to 'censor' it).
Ironically, unless you're flaming someone, you're far more likely to get into trouble for avoiding the auto-censor than for swearing, since anyone who doesn't want to see swear words can see gems such as "amphetamine parrot", "beslubber" and, of course, "wonderful example to us all" instead.
~MTWC
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Which one is "Wonderful Example To Us All"?
I haven't seen that, its apt.
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It's one of the lesser-used swear-words, I forget which, though I do recall it being one of my favourites (as in censor, not swear-word).
~MTWC
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Personally, I like "Boy Snide's Outrageously Shiny Leather and PVC clad Soul Train"
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Could "Cooze" be "Wonderful example to us all"?
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This path leads to misery and pain. Do not make the censor into a mission of finding what each phrase means when. It's unnecessary swearing, and unnecessary work for mods to keep an eye on.
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The problem is, some people are curious, andwewill find ways of testing it.
To prevent this, you could simply let these few view the list of censor words/phrases.
I'm sure you've got a list somewhere with all of the censor words/phrases. ;D
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So that you can pre-construct sentences considerate of how they'll be altered? No thanks. ;)
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So that you can pre-construct sentences considerate of how they'll be altered? No thanks. ;)
Well, we can already do that with the ones we know.
Also, since you didn't deny having a list - THEY'VE GOT A LIST!!!!!
:P
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If such a list existed in anything other than code form it could also be changed at a moments notice so in the end you're back where you started.
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Personally, i liked "Sexy Lycra clad pixies" :)
and I suppose you could alway try PMing yourself all the swearwords (assuming the censor works in PM as well?)
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...and I suppose you could alway try PMing yourself all the swearwords (assuming the censor works in PM as well?)
It works. And if someone was so inclined as to try to find such words and expressions, lets say that hitting the 'Preview' button on any text you type does the work.
Of course, nobody benefiting of a healthy mental status would do that, right?
Right?
Starky
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Would British swearing be acceptable, such as 'the Udders of Thoth'; 'teen-pop sensation' and 'outrageously sexy lycra-clad pixie' ?
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No
To elaborate; swearing is swearing. It is not ok no matter what language you are using. As english is hte language of these boards, we only have to worry about swearing in english, and its sub-dialects. And they are all treated the same.
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I would like you guys to know that 40kos word filter has affected the way I think and write.
I just typed "beslubbering" in place of a choice swear word on another forum :)
We are happy to improve your vocabulary in this manner. :)
I love this forum! ;D You mods have gone way past necessary to make this no-swearing filter something enjoyable rather than oppressive. I, too, have used 'beslubbering' in my conversations with others who have no idea where it has come from.
NewHeretic
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Two quick points:
1. If children visit this site and their parents find it inappropriate for them to do so, it's up to the parents to either get a reality check, or tell them this site (as well as most of the internet) is off limits because of the "vulgar" language. As someone else pointed out, I hope those same kids don't take the school bus, or go outside to play with other kids, because they're in for a real treat. Since I don't own this site, I invite the moderators to continue their illusion that censoring is taking the "higher road".
2. I'm bothered by the comments that imply swearing is for lesser minds, or that it somehow depicts a lack of class or taste. If someone swears, they swear. It doesn't tell me anything about that person, especially about their intellect. Greater minds than our own swear all the time. Swearing does not speak to intellectual ability. Assuming it does, however, is presumptuous and too heavy-handed.
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Two quick points:
1. If children visit this site and their parents find it inappropriate for them to do so, it's up to the parents to either get a reality check, or tell them this site (as well as most of the internet) is off limits because of the "vulgar" language.
Perhaps so, but I'm sure the staff don't need irate parents e-mailing them about the language being used on the site their precious snowflake is browsing. Censoring swear words saves trouble for the site as well as the readers.
If it disturbs you too much, remember that you have the option to turn the auto-censor off in your profile.
Since I don't own this site, I invite the moderators to continue their illusion that censoring is taking the "higher road".
I don't think the condescending tone really is required, do you?
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1. If children visit this site and their parents find it inappropriate for them to do so, it's up to the parents to either get a reality check, or tell them this site (as well as most of the internet) is off limits because of the "vulgar" language.
That would be such a shame though, when an obvious and simple solution is at hand allowing these kids to keep browsing the forums, while not taking contents away from anyone else; just tone down the language, let the censor do its job (turn it off if you want to see all the juicy words, if you are fond of them) and don't bring up subjects that are simply not within the scope of a forum such as this. That way, not only can you enjoy the forum, and all the kids can, but I also don't have to deal with all the email from parents complaining that a site about a simple miniature-game hobby contains gratuitous foul language at every turn.
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. I'm bothered by the comments that imply swearing is for lesser minds, or that it somehow depicts a lack of class or taste. If someone swears, they swear. It doesn't tell me anything about that person, especially about their intellect. Greater minds than our own swear all the time. Swearing does not speak to intellectual ability. Assuming it does, however, is presumptuous and too heavy-handed.
No of course not. We however are on a forum were the words uttered are visible to anyone. As such it seems to be silly to post anything that could potentially cause offence in the same way it seems silly to I don't know draw a penus on your garden lawn. You aren't directly hurting anyone but it could irtate somone and as such seems to be causing uneccesary hassle.
I am afraid that I am lost to your correlation of the degree of intellect being and the general amibality of a person. I know plenty of people who I would considewr far more intellgient then me but would I want to spend an afternoon with them? No (That is not meant to be an anti-intellectual comment by the way but simply a statement that nastiness isn't exclusive to any group of people)
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and I will also note that swearing in SPEECH is one thing... I use a fair amount of non-censored language in my day to day speech.
Swearing while TYPING is something completely different, and, I will say, denotes a possible lack of intelligence and a certain lack of class if continually done.
You have to THINK about what you type... nothing "just slips out" when it is typed... So, if done for emphasis, occasionally, fine... if done frequently, then someone needs to get a dictionary and improve his/her vocabulary.
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Hey Kindred, speech and typing are different things. I don't think a contrary position is defensible. The mechanics of both are just different.
But you're presumptions are too heavy handed for me. You come to "typing" with preconceptions of what is acceptable, but others come to the table with a different mindset. Your preconception isn't wrong, just as another's preconceptions aren't wrong.
For example, you seem to use capitalization to emphasize some words. Would it be heavy handed for me to see this abuse of language as an indicator that you're stupid? Or that you should pick up a grammar book? It would be foolish if I assumed so quickly.
The same is true for when people make spelling mistakes in their posts. Look at PMF's post, it's littered with spelling mistakes. Does that tell me he's dumb? Or needs to learn spell check? No way. Not even close.
Likewise, when you see someone swear with frequency on a forum, please don't insist they need a dictionary or they need to improve their vocabulary. Because they come to the forum with a different mindset than your own. Perhaps they see the line between speech and typing to be more subtle than you do. People approach modes of communication differently. Spelling mistakes, mid-sentence capitalizations, and swearing don't tell me anything about how smart you are.
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... but they do indicate how much effort you are willing to put into communication.
I am an English teacher (amongst other things) I expect people to communicate clearly. If that is presumptuous, then I certainly am. If people are using the written language, then it is only appropriate to expect thought to be put into it; because you are not typing in "real time" on the forums, so things that you may get away with during regular speech, or even in chat, are not the same when you are typing and posting messages.
So, you are right... swearing and misspellings are not always indicative of a lack of intelligence, but are almost certainly indicative of a certain amount of laziness. A few misspellings are, of course, expected, because we all type fast and don't always spell-check. :) However, posts litter with misspelling indicate a certain lack of effort put into the communication, and, on the point of swearing, as I said, a swear used for emphasis is one thing, but swears scattered throughout a message are pointless and serve no purpose other than to highlight the amount of disrespect which the poster holds the rest of the world...
(and yes, I occasionally fall into lazy mode myself)
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But you're presumptions are too heavy handed for me. You come to "typing" with preconceptions of what is acceptable, but others come to the table with a different mindset.
To be honest this is all largely irrelevant. My mindset when I see someone swearing is completely irrespective of how intelligent they may be and pays attention to the following things:
1. Is it excessive?
2. Will it be blocked by the forums auto-censor?
3. Will people still be offended (and with fair cause to be)?
At the end of the day you don't run this forum and the people that do want it to be accessible to younger gamers. If that means not being completely laissez-faire about swearing then that's a very small price to pay. I don't really know where you get the impression that we all think we're Lord Pomp as a result. There are kids who don't want to read swearing, parents who don't want their kids to read swearing and adults who don't want to read swearing. We're not going to exclude them just because you say we should and if you think that makes us arrogant and self-important I don't really care.
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well, I am arrogant and elite, since I have a (https://www.40konline.com/Themes/raven/images/PINK.png) badge and none of you do... :P
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... Since I don't own this site, I invite the moderators to continue their illusion that censoring is taking the "higher road". ...
We're real paragons of holier-than-thou false morality at 40kOnline. We're pure white sheets in our dogma. Or, more likely, it's the path of least nuisance. The censor can be deactivated in your User CP (Control Panel). The source post is never modified, just filtered for display to those who leave the censor on.
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Since I don't own this site, I invite the moderators to continue their illusion that censoring is taking the "higher road".
The level of disdain for our forum rules and staff you have chosen to show is not really necessary. If you do not like having swear words censored out of the posts you read, simply turn off the censor in your profile.
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or, even better, you can not bother to use them in the first place.. in which case, no censor will be active at all.
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... Since I don't own this site, I invite the moderators to continue their illusion that censoring is taking the "higher road". ...
The moderators aren't censoring posts, all they do is give you the option to censor the posts you read if you want to. Or if you don't you turn it off and there is no censorship in the material you read at all.
I don't understand what you're complaining about.
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Wow, I'm surprised at the number of responses! Let me just start by saying that I appreciate the dialogue.
Let me bullet point several replies:
1. The language of "the higher road" was introduced on the first page of this thread. Please see the last three posts on page one. The "intelligent-or-not?" argument comes from previous posts. Again, please consult the previous posts and the language used.
2. Hey Hymirl, I think it's silly that people have an option to censor the posts they read. I don't like censorship of any form. Just because I'm not doing the censoring, doesn't mean I approve of censorship. Hopefully that makes more sense.
3. I don't think anyone here is "Lord Pomp". I didn't think I had to make that explicit. But there you go.
4. Hey Kindred, I didn't know you were an english teacher! I have a great deal of respect for those who teach composition. Back on topic though, I wouldn't say that spelling mistakes necessarily point towards laziness, but rather a different set of preconceptions of what is acceptable. In an english classroom, a student's composition is measured in regard to form and content. When I craft a paper, useless sentences fall away, sentence are tightened. And everything is immaculate.
But I question if that system does (or should) transfer to casual internet forums. I understand the argument that it should. Communication is communication. But is it that simple? Can we impress upon that idea a context? Sure! You already do it. Like I said previously, I doubt you would ever capitalize a word to emphasize it mid-sentence in your more serious compositions.
The takeaway is that by censoring some words, you deny some preconceptions of what is right and what is wrong, when neither can make a true claim to being "right". It's like censoring your capitalizations or posts that commit too many spelling mistakes or the "lol" I've used earlier in this post. It's just silly.
5. I've already said I don't own this site. This feature has been around for a long time. But I recently happened upon this thread. Regardless, I bring this issue up because this is a forum.
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2. Hey Hymirl, I think it's silly that people have an option to censor the posts they read. I don't like censorship of any form. Just because I'm not doing the censoring, doesn't mean I approve of censorship. Hopefully that makes more sense.
You don't find it slightly ironic? If people give you an option to have a censor that's a terrible thing for you, but people who don't like swearing should put up and shut up? You don't slightly think your whining about the intelligent or not argument becomes slightly flawed by this contradiction, and you don't slightly think your whining about the higher road phrasing becomes slightly flawed in the incredible arrogance this attitude shows?
3. I don't think anyone here is "Lord Pomp". I didn't think I had to make that explicit. But there you go.
Not what I said. Lurn sum readin.
But I question if that system does (or should) transfer to casual internet forums.
Yes, because we're multi-age multi-nationality. Many posters here do not speak English as their first language so having to not only learn English but also all the slang to go with it and try and decipher what txt tlk would mean would be insufferable. Either way, although you started out that train of thought with saying "back on topic" I remind you that this topic is about swearing not spelling and grammar. In which vein; I just want to recap your argument:
Kids, parents of children and adults who are against swearing have the option of leaving the auto-censor on so that they don't have to read it if they don't want to. You, who enjoys swearing, has the option of turning off the auto-censor so that you can see all language in all it's glory. This state of affairs is a travesty as censorship is wrong. People must read the nasty words because you say so and if they don't like it they should (and I paraphrase only slightly) "get a reality check, or [accept that] this site (as well as most of the internet) is off limits because of the 'vulgar' language."
You can bring an issue up in such a fashion that opens it up for genuine debate which generally revolves around being clear that it's an earnest opinion that you want to air and discuss. You brought it in a way that says "look guys, you think you're right but I'm here to tell you you're all wrong. In fact you're idiots, go home." So while you may appreciate the dialogue I'm not sure anyone else does seeing as that's the attitude you take.
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the mods are not actually censoring posts, they are just allowing an auto censor option in your profile that will allow you to not have to view swear words in other peoples posts.
Therefore, i feel your argument is Foolish and invalid. You are basically complaining because there is an option for users to adjust they're own profile so that they do not have to view the swearwords and other obscenities posted by other users.
In affect, you're trying to argue that this option shouldn't exist, why? All people should have to view all the curse words posted by other people even if they find them offensive when they could simply activate the censor in they're profile which will not allow them to view the swearwords in other people's posts.
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I find it amusing and a bit of a relief to find that the Mods seem to be closer to the middle of the road in their moderating than I would tend to believe if people like you, Happy-Cake!, didn't exist. ;)
I happen to be one of those adults who doesn't appreciate hearing or reading profanity. In addition, I immediately lose some respect for the wisdom of anyone I encounter who uses profanity. Obviously, I'm at the opposite extreme from you, Happy-Cake!, and it is clear that the Mods have taken a position that should be acceptable to us both.
2. Hey Hymirl, I think it's silly that people have an option to censor the posts they read. I don't like censorship of any form. Just because I'm not doing the censoring, doesn't mean I approve of censorship. Hopefully that makes more sense.
This is funny, actually. Do you think that everyone should have the right, without consequence, to say or write anything they want? What about laws against libel and slander? What about perjury? What about the guy like me who doesn't appreciate hearing you cuss and swear in your conversation with him and requests that you desist? Will you continue because you believe you have every right to do so? You'll likely lose the person's cooperation, whether it be a business or social interaction and a broken jaw if you continue. ??? Are you sure there is never cause for censorship?
NewHeretic
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Happy-Cake!: unless you take the time to read the responses to your posts, I will start deleting them as flame bait. How is it censorship if the auto-censor can be deactivated? All of your arguments are made moot: people can read the "nasty words."
Before you enter another free speech jihad, remember: I am inviting you to participate in the discussion rather than yell at the wind.
Edit: Added a missing space between words.
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2. Hey Hymirl, I think it's silly that people have an option to censor the posts they read. I don't like censorship of any form. Just because I'm not doing the censoring, doesn't mean I approve of censorship. Hopefully that makes more sense.
You're saying people should not have the choice of what they want to read or not to read? Thats pretty stupid really, firstly because its not actually censorship, and secondly because if your advocating forced infomation input you're exactly as bad as people who force restricted infomation.
Perhaps now would be a good time to bring up the fact you can ignore specific users completely, and every word in every post or PM they make. Its a useful anti-harassment tool and against allows people not to have to deal with morons they don't want to put up with. At the end of the day people come to the forum because they want to interact with people they want to interact with. From start to finish a user's participation in the forum is entirely voluntary.
You're utterly wrong in every possible way, quiet apart from the fact that the forum is private property exactly as if where a physical room in Raine's house. And when you're in someone's house you obey their rules or you can leave. Its not about freedom of speech because that remains uneffected, its about Raine not being obliged to show you hospitality.
All the current users here value Raine's hospitality enough to follow his rules without problem. The only place there can be a problem is on your side... so you have to choose either to get over it or... bye.
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It's kind of like saying
"I don't think people should be allowed to pick which newspaper they read. They should all have to read the same newspaper and only that newspaper. And if they don't like that newspaper, they still have to read it because i said so."
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After reading the majority of posts on this topic, i find it humerous that people would even bother arguing the fact that swearing is not tolerated. I mean I cuss like a sailor off the internet, especially working trades and construction, sometimes it just comes out, but i have the ability to control my language when I know it's not permitted.
I think what people seem to have really lost sight on in the post...is that Rasmus simply said "hey guys, read the rules and guidelines to the site about swearing" and some people decide to say "Forget you rasmus and your rules, i'll do whatever i want". In which case, all I can say to those people is grow up.
There's a reason why those rules are created, if you can't abide by them, then honestly, ship out. It's called maturity, and yes, being able to control your language in certain circumstances DOES directly reflect your intelligence. If someone tells you swearing isn't allowed, and then you turn around and do it, obviously you arn't an overly intelligent person, or you're just plain ignorant. Either way, you still look like the moron in the end.
Just my two cents.
Raz
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There's a reason why those rules are created, if you can't abide by them, then honestly, ship out.
Exactly. This site is the propriety of Purple Raine (whoever that is! :P). He made this site, and pays for it's upkeep and maintenance etc.
We, the active posters, are guests on his site. And while we are free to participate in the forums of this site for....free, we are also here at Raine's generosity. So it is more of a gift, rather than a privilege, and your 'rights' mean nothing here, so please, anybody complaining about their freedom of speech being quashed, just shut the hell up. Or better yet, start your own site!
If Raine has some rules that he wishes you to follow while on his site, then follow them, or clear off. I mean, Christ knows, it's not exactly hard to follow 40k on-lines rules you know. And the auto-censor? Who'd have a problem with that?
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lol my brother is such a suck up!;)
Here I don't mind my curse words being blocked if that's the rules.
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Here I don't mind my curse words being blocked if that's the rules.
If you want to see profanity, click in this order:
User CP (menu bar in the header) --> Look and Layout Options --> check the box beside, "Leave words uncensored."