Topic: What to do with the big bad Cron Lord... I'm mindshackled!

[adamscurr]

I had a great game with a friend of mine last night...  I took my standard evil sunz list that has 2 BW, 3 trukks, 2 flakka wagons, lootas, boyz, and dakka jet...  I also was trying my new fighta bomba out, which performed great! 

My friend brought a bunch of walking crons, two bisquits, 2 transports, a doomsday ark, and two of the little skimmer things.  While the shields gave me some trouble at range (I had to glance them to death), I was able to deal the with transports.  Power klaws did wonders to them once I got close enough.  He was disgusted with the doomsday ark, which got pked to death from my boarding plank on turn 2.

One problem I ran into was mindshackle scarabs...  Twice they gave me a bad time...  Once, he made one of my MANZ kill the other...  The other time, he lord challenged me, so my nob accepted (bad idea), got killed, then he chased down and wiped some truck boyz...  So here is my problem, how do you deal with these guys...  They have terminator saves and plaguebearer toughness, so the boyz are terrible at fighting them...  They will challenge, so your nob is going to have to fight them, or not attack.  If he chooses too, he is going to loose, especially if he has a warscyth...  Worse case, he is goign to turn a powerful character against your own army...  What to do?  Did I mention he gets back up?

Adam

[Spectral Arbor]

Well, I'm not 100% on how challenges work in terms of models being in BtB, but; A random model in btb is afflicted with MSS, so your challenged Nob may not be the guy that takes the test. It would be worth consulting the rulebook.


In terms of hypotheticals, with no real concern for practicals, you could...


Multi-Nob unit, with more than one PK. You're pretty much laughing, even if one gets pushed to the back.

Multiple Killa Kanz. You strike simultaneously, and inflict ID. One wound gets through, and he's rolling to get back up. Probably the best option, as there is no way to MSS them! Also, you can bring KMB's, for the good stuff vs armour [IE: Good AP for damage bonus.]

Hmm... Other sources of KMB could be useful, though less so if the Lord is in a large unit he can LOS! wounds off to.

[adamscurr]

Thanks for the input...  I was also considering a deff rolla as a possibility...  He was putting the Lord in front so the unit could benefit from his better save...  If I deff rolla's him, the lord would have to take it and get piffed if he failed...  The kanz have potential... 

Adam

[Partninja]

Well, I'm not 100% on how challenges work in terms of models being in BtB, but; A random model in btb is afflicted with MSS, so your challenged Nob may not be the guy that takes the test. It would be worth consulting the rulebook.


In terms of hypotheticals, with no real concern for practicals, you could...


Multi-Nob unit, with more than one PK. You're pretty much laughing, even if one gets pushed to the back.

Multiple Killa Kanz. You strike simultaneously, and inflict ID. One wound gets through, and he's rolling to get back up. Probably the best option, as there is no way to MSS them! Also, you can bring KMB's, for the good stuff vs armour [IE: Good AP for damage bonus.]

Hmm... Other sources of KMB could be useful, though less so if the Lord is in a large unit he can LOS! wounds off to.

MSS will only and can only affect the model it is in a challenge with. However, there is an exception:

One way around the scarabs, is to assault the unit containing the lord BEFORE it assaults you. Due to the timing of the challenges, fight phases, and scarabs, whoever initiates the assault decides the order of things that happen at the same time (in this case, the scarabs and the challenge). As such, if you initiate the assault you can get around the scarabs simply by saying "ok your scarabs happen now, then the challenge initiates" and you move into BtB.

Little known fact Necron players don't like to point out

[adamscurr]

Interesting...  I was not aware of that...  You don't happen to know where in the rulebook I can demonstrate that this is the case...?  Make the argument?

Adam

[Katamari Damacy]

What Partninja said. Page 9 of the BRB 'exceptions', states what to do if stuff happens simultaneously 

[Partninja]

Yup. You will also need the little blurb from the Necrons FAQ that changes the wordage of the MSS in regards to the fight phases.

[Upgrade1]

Hello you crazy gits!  This is Allen the Necron player involved in this game and I wanted to interject about how MSS works and clarify what Partninja noted about MSS and how it interacts with challenges.

The target of the Mind Shackle Scarabs is determined at the start of the sub fight phase however challenges are declared at the same time.(Pg 64, Issuing a Challenge)

So it becomes an issue of the order in which things are done.

If the Challenge is declared before the MSS target is determined, the rule for challenges takes over and it is only the challenger who is considered in base contact. So the MSS would affect only him. (Pg 64 Fighting a Challenge)

If however the MSS are done before challenges then you randomly select a model out of all of those in base contact with the MSS bearer.

It is the player who’s turn it is that decides the order in which things are done. (Pg 9 Exceptions)

If the victim is in a challenge he can only hit himself, as blows from a character in a challenge can’t be allocated outside of it.

Just as a note the MSS can still work if the Necron refuses the challenge providing he is in base contact with someone. He can’t strike blows but all his other kit still works.

AND THE FAQ
MindshackleScarabs. Change the first sentence to read “At the start of the Fight sub-phase, after charges have been made, but before any blows are struck, randomly select a non-vehicle enemy model in base contact with the bearer of the mindshacklescarabs.

My very small two cents worth.

-Upgrade

[adamscurr]

My head is starting to hurt! lol 

Adam