Topic: Eldar is next.

[Blazinghand]

A foot list using multiple squads of guaridans back up by wraith units is now quite a bit more appealing.

I'm very happy Lords got T8 back, however the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons still makes them unappealing.

Wraithlords and Wraithguard, assuming there haven't been other things fiddling with their rules, now seem quite strong. Anti-Infantry Weapons that worked reasonably well against Wraithguard like Heavy Bolters no longer do so. Assault Cannons are less effective as well. Mid-range or flexible anti-tank like missiles and autocannons are now worse against Wraithlords, as are bolters and meltaguns and plasma guns.

Stoic Endurance is a major buff to Wraithlords, who will be fighting at full strength all the way down until they have only 2 wounds remaining.

I think the idea of an army of footdar supported by wraith units has been buffed, which is exciting!

[Fenris]

Empower is great for banshees. or even for shining spears.

The new cost of spiritseers and warlocks is really interesting, warlocks must have gotten a serious boost if they are even more expensive than now, otherwise there would be no point of using warlocks over spiritseers even without wraith units in the army.

[Blazinghand]

Empower is great for banshees. or even for shining spears.

The new cost of spiritseers and warlocks is really interesting, warlocks must have gotten a serious boost if they are even more expensive than now, otherwise there would be no point of using warlocks over spiritseers even without wraith units in the army.

Depends on what they meant by "10 more than a Warlock" because if you factor in wargear, the 45-point Spiritseer is in fact about 10 points more than a Warlock with a Witchblade. Maybe Warlock base cost went up though, if so it might correspond to a buff to the Destructor or something.

[magenb]

Regarding Wraithblades and rerolls, surely someone has to go... hmm no thats a stupid number of dice rolls for a single unit to be making...

[Blazinghand]

My impression re: the toughness buffs is that the Wraithlord quite needed this, but the Wraithguard did not need this at all, as they were already one of the best units.

[Fenris]

@Blazinghand: well I'm assuming warlocks will cost 45-10 = 35 points, which is more than they currently cost, however if their witchblades come included it's still not enough. Even if they let go of the warlock smite-nerf I'd still prefer the statline of the spiritseer for +10 points.

Possibly if the spiritseer has to buy the witchstaff for 15 points the spiritseer & warlock would be at balance. I find it unlikely that one of them has to buy their basic gear and the other not, but I think we will see tomorrow, Ulthwé will likely feature Eldrad, warlock conclaves and black guardians.

[magenb]

My impression re: the toughness buffs is that the Wraithlord quite needed this, but the Wraithguard did not need this at all, as they were already one of the best units.

Well they did because of the SvT table, both Marines and conscripts could wound them on the same roll so yeah, the wraith wall would just collapse against a horde.

[Blazinghand]

@Blazinghand: well I'm assuming warlocks will cost 45-10 = 35 points, which is more than they currently cost, however if their witchblades come included it's still not enough. Even if they let go of the warlock smite-nerf I'd still prefer the statline of the spiritseer for +10 points.

Possibly if the spiritseer has to buy the witchstaff for 15 points the spiritseer & warlock would be at balance. I find it unlikely that one of them has to buy their basic gear and the other not, but I think we will see tomorrow, Ulthwé will likely feature Eldrad, warlock conclaves and black guardians.

Spiritseer does not have to buy and pay for Witch Staff right now, and Warlock has to pay for Witchblade right now (in Index:Xenos 1). It can't be THAT unlikely that one has to buy basic gear and the other does not, given that it is ALREADY the case, heh.

My impression re: the toughness buffs is that the Wraithlord quite needed this, but the Wraithguard did not need this at all, as they were already one of the best units.

Well they did because of the SvT table, both Marines and conscripts could wound them on the same roll so yeah, the wraith wall would just collapse against a horde.

Hmm, this is possibly because I do not play against very hordey armies that I have not noticed this problem.

[Partninja]

Regarding Wraithblades and rerolls, surely someone has to go... hmm no thats a stupid number of dice rolls for a single unit to be making...

Really? Have you never played against an Ork or Tyranid army?

Also keep in mind this is on a very expensive full 10-man squad who was mostly point-costed out of being used. They're also going to be on foot and assuming they made their charge. Surely a good opponent will kill at least a few as they walk up the board and probably deny them the charge (for a loss of attacks).

Not that bad at all.

[Fenris]

I just noticed, if you cast enervate on a unit that would normally only wound you on 6+, you would effectively be immune, right?
For example Wraithlord vs Mareens or Wraithblades vs Gardsmen.

[Blazinghand]

Regarding Wraithblades and rerolls, surely someone has to go... hmm no thats a stupid number of dice rolls for a single unit to be making...

Really? Have you never played against an Ork or Tyranid army?

Also keep in mind this is on a very expensive full 10-man squad who was mostly point-costed out of being used. They're also going to be on foot and assuming they made their charge. Surely a good opponent will kill at least a few as they walk up the board and probably deny them the charge (for a loss of attacks).

Not that bad at all.

In addition to Eldar, I also run an army of Orkz. A typical unit I might run would be:

30 Ork Boyz - 1 is Boss Nob with Big Choppa + Shoota, 3 have Rokkit Launchas, 26 have Shootas - 225 pts
1 Weirdboy with Da Jump - 62

Assuming I send this squad in using a weirdboy, it will put out 27x2 Shoota Shots, 3 Rokkit shots, then charge and 50% of the time make it in to make 87 regular Ork Boy attacks and 4 Big Choppa attacks.  This requires about 290 points to make this happen. However, since this is a mass of S4 attacks, it doesn't really compare to the Wraithblades that well.

You could also do this with a squad of 10 Nobs with Big Choppas, and 2 Weirdboys, one casting Warpath, which will put out 40 Big Choppa Attacks for about 375 points total.

The article suggests a Spiritseer using Psytronome Warlord power, Guided Wraithsight Strategem on the Wraithblades, and Empower Psyker Power with a 10-strong Wraithblade (with axes) unit to put out 60 attacks. Total cost is about 550, plus a one-shot Warlord Trait, plus a CP. It's definitely a lot more expensive.

I would be pretty hesitant to make a 500 pts investment like this. But it could work.

[Partninja]

5-man squad would be 30 attacks (3Ax5x2)..The 60 attacks is for 10 models with axes and over 500pts for just the wraithblades. It's also at a lower WS due to the axe. Granted you'll get rerolls on them. Still way too many points for me.

I wasn't comparing the strength and AP as it was only the number of attacks in question.

Makes my 5-man Ghostswords squad a whole lot more kill though!

[Lord of Winter and War]

Only once per game relic, so better make sure the bonus attacks do the job! Nice little trick, I like it. The mortal wounds they receive in return is a very fair trade off.

Curious to see what the other craftworlds get. I really enjoy the 'sub faction traits' the codexes are getting. Good flavour, but not too crazy.

[Orange]

I'm cautiously optimistic about this. I really love the models for the wraith units, and I'm hoping that the combat wraith units especially will be far more worthwhile now.

[Blazinghand]

5-man squad would be 30 attacks (3Ax5x2)..The 60 attacks is for 10 models with axes and over 500pts for just the wraithblades. It's also at a lower WS due to the axe. Granted you'll get rerolls on them. Still way too many points for me.

I wasn't comparing the strength and AP as it was only the number of attacks in question.

Makes my 5-man Ghostswords squad a whole lot more kill though!

Dang, I totally miscalculated! Yeah, 10 Axe/Shield Wraithblades, plus a one-shot Warlord Trait, plus a CP, plus a psyker power and a psyker, all together is an enormous investment. I'm not sure it can really be compared to other options the Eldar have, heh.

[magenb]

In addition to Eldar, I also run an army of Orkz. A typical unit I might run would be:

Sorry was more of a comment on the silly number of dice rolls you get now, regardless of the army. Its gone from being played with a handle full of dice to a bucket. Guess that's why GW's dice esst have more than doubled in price lol.

[faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)]

I am more excited about the Enervate power. It applies a buff, irregardless of what that unit is attacking, and can stack with the Harlie's Shadowseer buff. This also means that something like a wraithlord vs Space marines can be immune to the normal attacks!

[Irisado]

Just a reminder that while GW can posts all its own stats and copyright on its own site, we're not able to do the same.  Some posts have been edited for that reason.

[Aurics Pride]

Ulthwe is next

Got to be honest I am pretty disappointed with the Ulthwe rules, their craftworld trait is a poor mans disgustingly resilient and really won't make a huge deal of difference in my opinion. Obviously there may still be more to come but I was really hoping for a bit more of a psychic boost rather than a feel no pain save and a strategem to make Guardians a little better for 1 phase.
Mind War at least looks interesting with the right support.

[haunt]

Well, then you'll like that the new Eldar Starter Box is Iyanden, right?  Not like I need more wraiths.