Topic: 1500pt Tempestus Scion list

[Calamity]

A simple army list to play the force I'm building here.

Tempestus Command Squad: 140pts
Tempestor Prime with power weapon,
Scion with vox caster and hot-shot laspistol, Scion with medi-pack, 2 Scions with meltaguns.

Taurox Prime with Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-linked hotshot volley gun, recovery gear, smoke launchers, extra armour: 125pts

Scion Squad: 190pts
Tempestor with plasma pistol and power fist,
6 Scions with hot-shot lasguns, Scion with vox caster and hot-shot laspistol, 2 Scions with meltaguns.

Taurox Prime with Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-linked hotshot volley gun, recovery gear, smoke launchers, extra armour: 125pts

Scion Squad: 190pts
Tempestor with plasma pistol and power fist,
6 Scions with hot-shot lasguns, Scion with vox caster and hot-shot laspistol, 2 Scions with meltaguns.

Taurox Prime with Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-linked hotshot volley gun, recovery gear, smoke launchers, extra armour: 125pts

Scion Squad: 190pts
Tempestor with plasma pistol and power fist,
6 Scions with hot-shot lasguns, Scion with vox caster and hot-shot laspistol, 2 Scions with meltaguns.

Taurox Prime with Taurox Missile Launcher, Twin-linked hotshot volley gun, recovery gear, smoke launchers, extra armour: 125pts

Valkyrie with Multiple Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 145pts

Valkyrie with Multiple Rocket Pods and Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 145pts

The basic idea is that the vehicles will be crowd control whilst the Scions themselves are to hunt and kill high priority targets.  I was torn between giving them melta guns or flamers.  Thinking about it I should probably mix things up with regards to their special weapons.  I was originally going to take an actual ground assault formation but that has a compulsory Commissar and if the choice is that or a Valkyrie I'm taking a Valkyrie.  

Then again, I could trim the fat off the Primes and use the points to get him in.  That formation has some nice special rules.  Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?  I do not actually expect to win a thing with this list.  It's more about learning how Scions (a.k.a, Stormtroopers) actually work these days.

[Wyddr]

I hate to say this, but it's a good thing you're not expecting to win with this list, since I think it's unlikely you will.

In general, I think you are paying waaay too much for your Tauroxen. The missile launcher is nice, but you can get a linked autocannon for FREE and it's almost as good. The other weapons (the Gatling Gun and the mini-battlecannon) aren't amazing, but they're better buys for the points. Smoke Launchers are a good buy, but I'd drop all other options. For the amount you're shoveling into those Tauroxen, you could actually put a unit or two into your Valks, which is very much worth it.

Tauroxes won't live very long if anybody pays much attention to them, and since they're about all you have on the board, they're all somebody has to pay attention to. I tried running a list similar to this a little while back (proxied). In field tests, the Tauroxen all died horrible deaths in the first two turns and my scions had to survive on foot. They did okay, but not great. If it weren't for the Inquisitorial Squad I'd brought full of face-punching Death Cult assassins and Crusaders, I would have lost every test game.

If I were going to field a Scion-only list, I'd probably be playing the reserve game with most of my units in Valkyries. I'd throw a few units down to hunker down in cover and just survive long enough for my reserves to come in, and then just play flyer spam. As cool as the Taurox Prime is, if there's nothing else to distract firepower, they don't live long enough to earn their keep. 

[Calamity]

When I was designing this list I was assuming that my main opponents would be MEQs, which is why gave it the Missile Launcher.  I thought that it's high ballistic skill when combined with it's multiple shots with the twin linked volley gun in tow would make it could at popping rhinos and shooting up marine squads.  Then again...they are expensive...and the autocannon is free.  I definitely agree that I've put too many extras on them though.

I'm sadly starting to wonder if Scions can function as a stand alone army.  I think you have the right idea though.  The Tauroxen, along with a couple of Scion squads, can hold my objectives until the fliers show up.  If they're doing this I think I'll ditch the extra armour and smoke launchers but keep the camo netting.  And I think I'll give them a basic Battlecannon/T-L Autocannon combo.  Against most forces they can pop the transports and then the Scions can try to shoot what falls out.  Emphasis on try.

 

[Wyddr]

Yeah, I'm also not convinced they can work as a stand-alone force. They're missing something (though what I can't quite put my finger on). I think they're basically designed to work with allies.

[Calamity]

I know what they're missing; durable units and heavy weapons.  Everything in the list is as fragile as glass.  Taurox Primes are autocannon fodder, and Scions suffer the same problems as pre-5th ed Guard infantry squads; too small and too fragile.  And there's not enough off them.  You can have more Scions in a normal combined arms IG army than in a Scion only force (105 compared to 70).

At least they're braver than the old squads though. 

I think I need to go do an armoured list, and use these guys as the infantry support.

[Spectral Arbor]

They're missing something (though what I can't quite put my finger on).

They're missing the rest of the Guard Codex, which you get when you buy the Astra Militarum Book and get mad about the Scion book. Dead Serious, you can play Tempestus + Other Goodies with the Guard Dex.

Vets + Grenadiers in a Valk > Scions in a Valk. The Hellgun is minutely better than a Lasgun, assuming your target isn't in cover. Once they're in cover, it's a straight wash since you need to be so close to double tap.

What Tempestus are is a crappy version of Eldar. Sub Hellguns for Avenger Shuricats [bad trade]. Sub Valks for Wave Serpents [worse trade]. Sub Orders for Psykers [Mild positive]. Add to this the half-retarded younger brother of the Razorback, instead of more Wave Serpents, and that's the Scions.


They need Vendettas, for anti-flyer / dedicated tank hunting. There's no reason they shouldn't have those. They need something with bulk to support them when they get out, like a Podded Dreadnaught, Ogryns, or something like that. They need a Battlecannon-like weapon that can really inflict a lot of damage on an infantry squad in one turn. They don't have any access to "get ahead" wounds that normal Guard armies can use. Even Demo Charges would help.


The biggest problem is that GW made a codex out of 4 units, then put those units inside another codex and called it Astra Militarum. They then removed some rather weak formations that are designed to sell Valks and Tauroxen. Seriously, what garbage.


So my strong suggestion would be to go with a Carapace'd CCS, 2x Vets in Carapace w/ Guns, a Platoon of Scions and then some tanks to provide the heavy firepower. If you're going airbourne with the CCS and Vets, you can DS the Scions and then maybe stick with Evil Mutts to ensure they can keep up with everyone.

Maybe some artillery hidden out of sight to help out would be good. Since you don't need LOS, you can attack anywhere the rest of the army is going, without exposing yourself to return fire.

270 - CCS w/ goodies in Vendetta

260 - Vets w/ goodies in Valk

260 - Vets w/ goodies in Valk

420 - Scion Command, 3x 5-Man Scion Squads [all with goodies]

270 - 2x Evil Mutts [Separate Units]

280 - 2x Artillery [Or use one as a pair of Wyverns]

1760 - Total


So you can play that however you like, and you could pretty easily drop a unit or two to get it down to 1500. For example, drop a Scion Squad, and either an Evil Mutt or an Artillery piece. I'd say that would make a [much] stronger list than anything that Scions could put together, while still being basically a "scion" list.

[Calamity]

What Tempestus are is a crappy version of Eldar.

They certainly are.  I saw them compared to the Dark Eldar before, and I agree.  But they are a very crappy version of either pointy eared faction.

You have some good ideas though.  I'll consider doing them.

I actually sadly underwhelmed by the Scion Codex.  There was so much potential but they just didn't realize it. 

[Lord of Winter and War]

I feel like if I were to play Scions, I would load up on missile/autocannon taurox's with plasma or melta guns inside and a couple of Valkyries with missile pods (for horde control).

I can make a list with a command squad, five squads of Scions and two valkryes. It has six Missile/autocannon taurox's and 14 special weapons (I went with 10 plasmaguns and four hot shot volley guns, so you'd save some points dropping to other weapons). With that many fast Ob-sec tanks and squads zipping around, I feel you'd be able to do some hurt.

All scion squads are five man and the sergeant has no close combat weapon. I feel that the army would crumble in close combat, so there is little point in spending 15-25pts a squad for a weapon which will be dead before you strike.

I wish the bullgryns were included as part of the codex, especially considering all the paint schemes has them in the same colours as the scions. That'd have been really cool.

[Calamity]

That sounds like a pretty solid list.  I'm coming to the realization that the Scion Formations are a bit of a gimmick, and I'm moving away from attempting them.  Ogyrns would have been sweet but as I said in the thread in the Forge I can understand why they aren't included.