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Author Topic: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors  (Read 114733 times)

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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #300 on: May 24, 2009, 11:26:47 AM »
@Valar: Thank you, I'll take a look ASAP - After I get some sleep... :D

@bebe: Welcome to the POC! You are registered as a Guardian Defender of Iyanden (you have the post count to get Wraithguard but probation at Guardian status is standard procedure), it may be that you won't get your Title immediately, it all depends of Modly Operandy.

Feel free to post fluff, background and whatnot (yes, that means you too Valar if you have some), new material should make it's way to the POC soon (beginning with Valar's Paint Guide) and I am beginning to consider a new format to the POC, as as it is now my right hand (Wraithlord Gwaihir) has been in absentia for a while now and some of the front pages were his.

I'd like to get your ideas and suggestions on how the POC front pages should be structurated if you have some (brewing some ideas myself)...

   Starky

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Offline CallumS

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #301 on: May 24, 2009, 05:18:02 PM »

Have you considered boosting your CC efficiency by gicing one of the Wraithlord a Wraithblade instead of a EML? Sure you'd lose an medium/light AT shot a Turn, but I wouldn't worry too much about that, especially with 20 Wraithcannons on the table. :D
However, the CC re-rolls may well make the difference when it come down to melee, I just can't remember how many times I kept failing to hit in CC against mere SM...
It also make the WL an excellent MC/AV/IC killer in CC, while keeping the Brightlance option for AV 14 hunting, and lest face it, 5th Edition made CC king, so a bit of a boost there can't be a bad thing.

Both of your list are well balanced enough, although they could do with a bit more speed and especially some anti-horde firepower, but that's the price to pay for using two WG units.

But lets face it, it is not the hordes in themselves that are a problem for the Wraithguard, but the supporting killer ICs and MCs accompanying them in battle.

I imagine it is, yes. Speed is an unfortunate downside, and, sometimes, I regret putting restrictions on my list!  ;)
I had considered the Blade for a Wraithguard, but was not convinced of its potency.

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Here you go Starky, I told you id do it soon.... guess what.... Ive started the wraithguard painting thread for you and the PoC and its available for you to have a look at here I hope you all approve and enjoy this thread and Id like to hear what all my fellow members of the PoC think.

I like what I see so far quite a lot!

Offline Feresy

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #302 on: May 24, 2009, 05:25:15 PM »
Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but has anyone had any experience with the Epic Wraithlords? I was just wondering if they would be suitable to convert into Wraithguard.
In the picture they look a bit small...

Offline bebe

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #303 on: May 24, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »
Here is my forces fluff ...




The Chronicles - Craftworld Gro-Galdr

After the Tyranid invasion of their craftworld, the Iyanden gathered to seek revenge.Splinter groups of Iyanden formed their own craftworlds.  Some aspect warriors survived and joined their new craftworld augmented by the souls of the dead.  The Shrine of Asurmen, the Light in the Darkness was located on Iyanden. Many Dire Avengers joined their frigates as they fled their homeworld. Wandering groups of traveling Harlequins in the webway are also welcomed and often join the craftworld in battle.

Thus Craftworld Gro-Galdr came to be formed. Their homeworld craft is well suited to fly webway and their ties to their Iyanden culture remain steadfast. Their frigate ship flies the Warp on a two fold mission; restore the dead and destroy the Tyranids. The Farseer of Gro-Galdr will sit entanced in dream-like state, and then awaken clutching his bag of runes as if to cast some terrible spell. He searces  in deep meditation and then rises to direct his Craftworld on to their next task.

The Seer Chaeli was aware that the Children of Isha were engaged in conflict with mon-keigh in attempt to control passage into the webway. He would not lead his craftworld into this conflict. The path of the Spirit Seer was to rebuild the ghostly war host of Gro-Galdr and all his energy was spent sitting cross legged beneath the sacred dome gazing into the webway searching for fallen comrades.  His skin was cool and clear and and when he awoke from this state he would instruct his fellow Farseers in the casting of runes and the restoration spells.

The  Craftworld Gro-Galdr Farseer can sense the spirit of their dead warriors even within the Infinity Circuit and believes that he can restore an Eldar soul to a spiritstone pulling it from the depths of the Warp. So they search the Warp looking for fallen comrades but they also hunt their sworn enemy - The Hive Mind.

The Iyanden Spirit hosts avoid battle unless threatened but not these Ghost warriors. Whenever Tyranids are near they hurl themselves into battle. They do not abandon their goal of replenishing their ranks with retrieved souls. Their Farseers have developed a process to accomplish this and even from many miles away they can sense the dead souls and begin the restoration.   

Craftworld Gro-Galdr uses Avatars even at the cost of an Eldar life as the combat monster has his role when hunting Tyranids. Combat is something that an Iyanden army seeks to avoid. Not so this force. They will search and kill any Nid force they can find to revenge themselves on Hive Fleet Kraken. They trust their Farseers to restore the dead souls.

They slip through the eye of the stom silently, with as little direct involvement as possible. It is their resolve  brought on by their desperate situation to survive in hopes of one day restoring the Crafworld to its former glory. So the once mighty defenders of Iyanden bide their time and strengthen their ranks awaiting the rejuvenation of their Craftworld casting the arcane runes of their Seers.

So they replenish their numbers with the spirits of the dead.  Gro-Galdr makes heavy use of their undead warriors animated by the souls of their fallen kin and their necromantic Farseers are feared and revered at once.


Here are a few pictures ... more can be found on the 'your Eldar Army' thread. The colour scheme of the Craftworld is a ghostly grey-silver with purple highlites. 








Here are a few of the lists I use and my game philosophy ( I can play up to 2500 points quite comfotably as a unified list ).

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=183170.0

« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 10:15:07 AM by bebe »
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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #304 on: May 29, 2009, 08:57:41 AM »
You have an interesting background there, Gro-Galdr being an Iyanden splinter Craftworld. I expect the Craftworld(s?) is itself quite small, probably more like a giant space station/spaceship than the slow, lumbering behemoths that are the ancient and gigantic Craftworlds of old...

I expect Gro-Galdr is nimble enough to travel the Webway, yes?

Interesting too that your main opponents are SM, CSM and T'au, since these three are known to haunt the galactic East, home sector of Iyanden.

Did you put thoughts over the possible political and social schism created between those Eldar who embraced this diaspora and those who would stay on Iyanden? Just curious, but there are interesting development possibilities there.

   Starky

P.S. Very good painting and models bebe, there's a ghostly feel to them that I find quite interesting. ;)

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Offline bebe

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #305 on: May 29, 2009, 10:17:13 AM »
Quote
I expect the Craftworld(s?) is itself quite small, probably more like a giant space station/spaceship than the slow, lumbering behemoths

This is how I envisage it. A large frigate ship wrapped in a ghostly aura striking fear into the hearts of their enemies.

Quote
I expect Gro-Galdr is nimble enough to travel the Webway, yes?

Absolutely. It is mentioned in the fluff.

Quote
[Did you put thoughts over the possible political and social schism created between those Eldar who embraced this diaspora and those who would stay on Iyanden? Just curious, but there are interesting development possibilities there.

There is no real schism. They consider themselves still to be true children of Iyanden, and our emissaries seeking to rebuild the forces of Iyanden and restore their former glory. Their rune casting is somewhat suspect as restoration through the casting of runes is considered a last resort but they feel these nour dire times still.

Quote
Very good painting and models bebe, there's a ghostly feel to them that I find quite interesting

Thank you. Appreciated.

The Song of Gro-Galdr
(Gro-Galdr Shelwe)

The dome above the spirtseer
Is crackling at the seams.
Upon the runes of death
The ghostlight brightly gleams.
When every IllMureead is squashed
With their nightmares and their fears,
The only sound in space to hear
Is silence as it drowns the screams.

Between the infinite circuit of fate,
The seeds of wrath are sown,
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known;
Wraithbone is a deadly friend
When one casts the runes.
The fate of all Iyanden rests
In in the hands of the  SpiritSeer.

Resurrection will be my epitaph.
As I sail a cracked and ghostly path
If we make it through the Warp
We laugh.
I fear tomorrow we will  weep,
Yes tomorrow we will weep.

« Last Edit: June 4, 2009, 08:29:14 AM by bebe »
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Offline haunt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #306 on: June 4, 2009, 01:37:24 AM »
@Starky: I have a list for you to check and score.

Eldar: Mial' Wei 1750

HQ
Avatar [155]
Eldrad [210]

Troops
Wraithguard x11 [396] Spiritseer, Conceal
Dire Avenger x10 [152] Exarch, ASC x2, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent [130] TL-Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone, Vector Engine

Elite
Fire Dragon x8 [160] Exarch, DBF, Tank Hunter, Crack Shot
Wave Serpent [130] TL-Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone, Vector Engine

Heavy
Wraithlord [120] Wraithsword, Scatter Laser, Flamer x2
Wraithlord [120] Wraithsword, Scatter Laser, Flamer x2
Fire Prism [160] Holo, Spirit Stone

Total = 1748

Hope its worthwhile, since this is the list I won with back in 2003 and last year 2008.

If one is to use this list and get into CC range:

1 - Remember Eldrad is used to Mind War special characters off w/ special weapons or abilities before CC.
2 - Spiritseer usually survives invul saves due to Fortune.
3 - Avatar and Bladelords x2 are actually nearby and should be able to obliterate any units that could try to get close to the Wraithguards.
4- NEVER FORGET to FORTUNE!!!
« Last Edit: June 7, 2009, 12:03:55 AM by haunt »
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Offline Spiritwarroir

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #307 on: June 4, 2009, 08:03:56 AM »
Nice song.
The imagery is dark and fits with the Eldar at war
The last Stanza is a nice reminder of the loss of war for the Eldar

Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #308 on: June 4, 2009, 08:22:38 AM »
Nice song.
The imagery is dark and fits with the Eldar at war
The last Stanza is a nice reminder of the loss of war for the Eldar
He is right. ;)

To answer that comment in another thread, yes the song is appreciated bebe. In fact, unless you have some copyright on it, I think it would be a nice addition to the POC front pages for when I'll rebuild the POC at the end of Summer, with your leave.

@haunt: Hey... It's been some time haunt, glad to see you back. This list seems a nasty piece of deadly warmachine, I'll should rate it this weak at work - I hope nobody believes I spend my precious time at home reviewing lists, are you? :o

   Starky

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Offline bebe

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #309 on: June 4, 2009, 09:55:56 PM »
haunt - Things have changed in 5ed.

First I never use vectored engines now as an immobilized skimmer is a dead skimmer.
Second, troops are much more important in 5ed. Having just two scoring units at 1750 can be dicey.
Third, in 5ed cc is huge. You have very little if any. Sure defend will help but you need a counter charrge squad at 1750.

I'm not rating the list, btw, just giving you a head's up on how 5ed has altered the landscape. I'll let Starky go into detail. I would have gladly played that list in 4ed. It would have been very strong, I can see that. It needs a bit of tweaking for 5ed though.
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Offline haunt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #310 on: June 5, 2009, 01:46:41 AM »
That list plays either w/ Yriel or the Avatar for 155 points. Although not many folks wanna charge that block of Wraithguards due to possibility of being blasted in the face w/ Wraithcannons. Maybe even a nearby Wraithlord too. :)
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Offline bebe

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #311 on: June 5, 2009, 08:34:50 AM »
There is no question that Avatar/Eldrad is nasty and I like it. I also like Yriel/Eldard. You have a ton of experience haunt. I've played about thirty games in 5ed - that's all. I am still tweaking my Iyanden for 5ed. My proir experiences go back to 3ed and 4ed with Eldar. I know you have played a lot more Eldar then me in 4ed as they were not my main army. They are now. So I'm just going to reference my experiences playing 5ed with a Wraithwall. At lower point levels I just use two troops and rely on my Wraithwall as well but a savvy player will charge and try to tar pit that wall. WG are a lot less dangerous in cc then firing their guns. No doubt the Avatar, Eldrad and WL will bolster the wall but that leaves your Dragons and DA without any support. I think the list can be played in 5ed but it will not be forgiving at all. I find I need to play virtually mistake free (not an easy task for me!) and when I start to increase my point levels I always take Harlies or Scorps for that cc and always add Yriel (I don't take Eldrad good as he is as I do not see him in amn Iyanden list but that is a preference that is not game related). Even with Yriel and Harlies and Scorps I feel a little light on cc at times. But again - these are my experiences and they are limited. At 1750-2000 points I've played only a half a dozen games as most of my games are 1500 and less. 
I like your wall and your DA and your FD. I think they are well configured overall based on what I've experienced. Maybe your familiarity with Eldar will allow you to be consistent with this list.  I know I would be adding a third troop choice somehow and be looking for one dedicated cc squad. 
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Offline haunt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #312 on: June 5, 2009, 11:51:01 AM »
Well, to play my list you must be able to think on the fly and be wary of the what's going on. Yes, I have plenty of game time during 4th ed although most of my playtime with my 40k were 2nd ed.

I have been collecting my armies for a while since RT days.
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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #313 on: June 6, 2009, 06:25:52 PM »
Eldar: Mial' Wei 1750

HQ: 365 pts
Avatar [155]
Eldrad [210]

TROOP: 693 pts
Wraithguard x11 [396] Spiritseer, Conceal
Dire Avenger x10 [167] Exarch, ASC x2, Bladestorm, Defend
Wave Serpent [130] TL-Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone, Vectored Engine

ELITE: 290 pts
Fire Dragon x8 [160] Exarch, DBF, Crack Shot, Tank Hunter
Wave Serpent [130] TL-Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stone, Vectored Engine

HEAVY: 400 pts
Wraithlord [120] Wraithsword, Scatter Laser, Flamer x2
Wraithlord [120] Wraithsword, Scatter Laser, Flamer x2
Fire Prism [160] Holo, Spirit Stone

TOTAL = 1748


If one is to use this list and get into CC range:

1 - Remember Eldrad is used to Mind War special characters off w/ special weapons or abilities before CC.
2 - Spiritseer usually survives invul saves due to Fortune.
3 - Avatar and Bladelords x2 are actually nearby and should be able to obliterate any units that could try to get close to the Wraithguards.
4- NEVER FORGET to FORTUNE!!!
Starky's moc-Score

1.. Anti-tank potential: It is very good throughout the list, with all units except Avengers able of some form of AT, either ranged or in CC or both. What hurt the list is the limited number of ranged AT but fast skimmers help alleviate this, although mechanised armies may spell trouble, thus Good 0.8
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: With over half the units able to easily enough kill MEQs, Doom, saturation firepower, 3 MCs, and the speed to bring it to bear this is very well covered, although some form of long ranged anti-MEQ would be desired it is Very Good 0.8
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Hordes will break like water on a shoreline against Fortuned Wraithguard and the list is full of Blasts and Templates and saturation firepower. Where the list can struggle is if the Wraithguard get locked by a horde since there is no significant counter-charge unit to relieve them, but overall Good 0.8
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: A good mix of short and medium firepower and a single lon ranged one, although some good mobility do help to get some of the weapons in range or in better position, I score this Above Average 0.7
5.. Assault potential: Three dedicated CC MCs, Eldrad, Doom, Fortune, extreme resilience and holding potential... I doesn't replace a good dedicated CC unit with it's usual fair number of attacks and so may struggle against numerous units but the list is good enough to deal with high priced elite armies and models, thus Above Average 0.7
6.. Scoring Units / point level: Two Scoring Units at that point level is low but there is some mobility, contesting capabilities and some very good resilience in there, so Slightly Below Average 0.5
7.. Durability or Resilience: There isn't much that could be done to improve the list in that regard, and most non dedicated lists wil break their teeth trying to bring down this force, the only weak parts being the Dragons and Avengers, Very Good 0.8
8.. Flexability: With three fast elements and the mainly footslogging nature of the CC part of the list, there is a limit to it's effectiveness at reacting to a broad range of opponents, so I rate it Average 0.6
9.. Mission Capabiliy: Multiple Objectives and Dawn of War missions may hurt this list, but the KP denial and capability to contest lessen these disavantages, so Above Average 0.7
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: A very good Wraith list theme, although the presence of Eldrad may be viewed as 'unfluffy' by some and three Heavy Support entries may hurt in Tourney's composition. Interaction with resilent and fast elements, CC might against anything Elite make and crowd control potential make for a good overall synergy, I score this at being Good 0.8

Rating = 7.2 Others may score it differently; I feel this list is a good, competitive list asking for some thinking before acting given the nature and vulnerabilities of some of the units. Some form of dedicated CC units could be a ncie add-on but three MCs and Eldrad can be quite nasty in themselves although their use is quite predictable and limited ranged firepower hurt quite a bit and could be made better. Overall, I would play this list with only slight modifications and probably do very well in local gaming and well enough in local and RT tournaments.

First I never use vectored engines now as an immobilized skimmer is a dead skimmer.
Second, troops are much more important in 5ed. Having just two scoring units at 1750 can be dicey.
Third, in 5ed cc is huge. You have very little if any. Sure defend will help but you need a counter charrge squad at 1750.
My thoughts on Vectored Engines: They aren't a bad upgrade, they DO save the tank from a Wrecked! result when going Flat Out, surely a thing to consider if you plan to Tank Shock or try to hold/contest an Objective in the 5th Turn with Random game length and all.
However, since an Imobilised result isn't as catastrophic as it was in 4th ed for a Skimmer (especially transports) I find these much too overpriced for what they bring to the army, much preferring Star Engines for the formidable mobility offered.
That being said, if one have the points and nothing else to spend on, it may be a nice option to buy.

CC with that list: Yes, it lacks a dedicated assault unit for either frontal Assault or countercharge, but the way the list is built there's about no way to find the points... Nonetheless, Eldrad/Wraithguard + Avatar + 2 CC Wraithlord: Any single unit of these should plow through a SM Combat Squad in two round of CC (especially with Doom) and any combination of two should do the same against a full 10 man squad, so this army is actually good in CC when it comes to A) Face MEQs and B) Face weak CC armies like T'au, IG and SoB.
However, facing Hordes may prove problematic, as while the Avatar and WLs will kill their fair share it will take them foerever. The way to deal with hordes with this list is through firepower and timely countercharge with the Wraithguard, as 20 Attacks at STR 5 (+ Spiritseer/Eldrad/Doom) should rape most horde units into submission, especially since most of these are Fearless these days.

@haunt: I see some tweaks here and there that I feel could make the list even more deadly, but that at the cost of the Vectored Engines: Is this list the final product that you want rated (for consitancy's sake) or do you want a review and do some modifications?

What can also be done is that I Rate your list and THEN we discuss it and we make the modifications that we deem could make the list more efficient.

   Starky :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 09:50:23 AM by Starrakatt »

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Offline bebe

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #314 on: June 7, 2009, 03:07:48 PM »
Quote
Dire Avenger x10 [152] Exarch, ASC x2, Bladestorm, Defend

You did not cost in defend. Should be 167 points. No big deal as you can drop vectored fopr the points.
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Offline moc065

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #315 on: June 8, 2009, 03:48:40 PM »
I would have knocked it down a little bitmore, as the 2 scoring units is below Average for 1750 (0.4)... Had he had two resilient units I would say Average; but DA in a Serpent are hardly resilient when its one of the easier things to take down (and hence probablly an early target). Think of the bubble and whats outside of it.

Nice list overall, and Starky pretty well nailed the rest for use within my scoring system (good job)

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Offline Starrakatt

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #316 on: June 8, 2009, 04:00:34 PM »
Thank you, although you have a point about the Scoring status... :-\ Probably because I never had that much problem with scoring myself, but that may have been a particularity of the opposition I usually face.

...Upon pondering, I think you are right, but I wouldn't score this at 0.4, as unless facing the CC monster units of 5th I've almost never lost the WG as a scoring entity (almost - yes moc, I remember how you killed mine - twice), thus I will revise the score to 0.5.

Thanks for the advice, I am supposed to be a meaner scorer than you after all... :P

   Starky

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #317 on: June 10, 2009, 11:13:24 AM »
That was the point though Starky....  Good Generals will know how to remove DA and/or Wraithguard and they will have the means to do it... Wraithguard are near impossible to remove at 1K; but at 1750 they are actually workable, and even if you can't kill them all you can "Pull" them off of objectives too.

Your overall score is fair though, as in general (local) that list could do very well vs almost anything it runs into.

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #318 on: June 10, 2009, 05:28:45 PM »
Calling on all members of the PoC

I NEED YOUR HELP

in making a 2000 point list to face off against a chaos army this coming tuesday.  I am expecting to face 6 Oblits a greater demon, Havoks, and plenty of CSMs.  Trouble is Ive never faced an army like this in 5th ed and I cant make a list that I am happy with out of what I have available, I cant seem to find an army list that I think will be competitive at the three mission types. 

What I am asking you to do is devise a 2000point army list out of what I list here for me, that will be competitive in any one of the 3 mission scenarios and against such a tough enemy.

Here we go with what I have available.

2 Farseers
Yriel
10 Howling Banshees
10 Fire Dragons
10 Wraithguard and spiritseer
10 Dire Avengers
10 Dire Avengers
5 Rangers
20 Guardian Defenders x2 Weapon platforms
1 Wraithlord with missile launcher and shuri cannon
1 Wraithlord with missile launcher and bright lance
1 wraithlord with starcannon and Wraithsword
3 Wave serpents (one of which is proxy from a falcon)
1 Fire Prism

I intend on turning this into a fully fledged battle report as Ive owed the PoC a bat rep for sooo long.  So please help me decide on a list... I cant decide on one myself right now which is annoying the crap out of me!!

Offline Aislinn

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Re: POC: Iyanden --- The Ghost Warriors
« Reply #319 on: June 11, 2009, 11:35:55 AM »
how about this:
  Yriel for sure as the HQ
   the 10 Wraithguard and Seer(troops)
  Both squads of Dire avengers
  the Wraithlord with the Sword and Wraithlord with Lance
  the Fire Prism
  the Banshees and Fire Dragons (in transport)
  "Their song shall die first!"

 


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