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Author Topic: Washes finishing "chalky" [Edit added photos]  (Read 2612 times)

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Offline SkullyChaos

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Washes finishing "chalky" [Edit added photos]
« on: February 14, 2009, 12:53:04 AM »
OK so I finally got some new paints. (I love my wife!! She listens to my dorky complaints, and does something about them...)
I am painting the orks from my AoBR set for practice purposes ( I can use lots of that...) and after priming them black, I went back and base coated the little buggers, then decided to play with some washes.
I used green (well duh) for the skin, and it looked way too light for my taste, so I decided to try and darken it up with a black wash.
I thinned down the black ALOT using water with a drop of dish soap in it, and painted over the model. I let Mr. Nob dry, and while it definately darkened the paint job overall, and left some nice shadows on his arms and face, but also left some white chalky marks on the raised areas.
So my questions are:
Is this because of the soap? (I heard using a drop of soap will allow the ink to settle better as a releasing agent)
Is this because of "hard" water? (I sure don't drink it around here, Dr. Pepper saves the day)
Can I remove this by rinsing the model with water after the paint dries? (Wash the washed model?)
Has anyone seen this before? (Or am I just that bad a painter and doing something stupid?)

Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!



« Last Edit: March 5, 2009, 07:07:04 PM by SkullyChaos »

Offline Mr Joe Moose

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 01:59:22 AM »
I would use a bit of Future floor polish to break the water tension in the wash.  This works great and has the added benefit of drying really hard. 

Your water could be the culprit, but I'm tempted to blame the soap.

Offline MoonMan

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 02:59:08 AM »
Were you using inks or washes? I've heard of the dish soap thing before (never tried it), but I've only heard of it being used with the now-discontinued Citadel Inks. I suspect it would affect the new washes differently, being that they are pretty different... maybe this is why?

With the washes, I always slather it on really thick when I want a darker wash.
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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 07:43:35 AM »
I would use a bit of Future floor polish to break the water tension in the wash.  This works great and has the added benefit of drying really hard. 

Why would this help with a GW wash when the point is they're already formulated to negate that sort of thing?  I can understand it with standard paints but even then you're better off using a product such as flow improver which really isn't expensive and is actually designed for use in acrylics.

I used green (well duh) for the skin, and it looked way too light for my taste, so I decided to try and darken it up with a black wash.

With the GW washes if you don't get the dark enough colour that you're going for first time, usually it's better to try the same colour a couple more times than to go straight to a black wash.

Is this because of the soap? (I heard using a drop of soap will allow the ink to settle better as a releasing agent)

I expect this to be the culprit.  You probably used to much soap, and regardless if you're using the newer GW washes instead of the inks it really isn't necessary because their formula is design for out-of-bottle use.

Is this because of "hard" water? (I sure don't drink it around here, Dr. Pepper saves the day)

I doubt it.  You'd have to have VERY hard water for limescale to be left to a noticeable degree considering the minimal quantity you use when painting.

Can I remove this by rinsing the model with water after the paint dries? (Wash the washed model?)

Try.  As long as the acrylics underneath are fully they won't be water soluble.  Best to wait a couple of days though.

Has anyone seen this before? (Or am I just that bad a painter and doing something stupid?

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Offline SkullyChaos

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 09:52:40 AM »
I am not using inks or a preformulated "wash". I am thinning down my paint to try and make my own wash.
(Although upcoming on the list of things to purchase is the GW wash kit)
Thanks for the info. I will try a few things on these guys (Less or no soap, washing them, different medium to act as a release agent, etc.), and let you know if anything works.

Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 05:09:19 PM »
Adding PVA glue as a medium means the "wash" will contract as it dries and behave similarly to the GW washes.  Adding a product such as a matt medium will help the paint maintain body without it pooling quite so heavily in particular spots.  Adding a product such as flow improver is a colourless additive designed to help reduce surface tension and basically do what the "soap" is meant to, so the paint can leave the brush more easily and grant you more control over where it lands and where it ends.  Something like flow improver really isn't needed unless you're doing fine detail or freehand work.

I'm very tentative whenever I hear somebody suggesting soap for anything other than cleaning brushes.  Something that's not colourless, not designed for use of acrylics and main purpose is killing germs tends not to be what I'd consider a great additive.  There are products out there which you can buy in good quantity without much investment that are designed specifically for the job.

If you want a wash that behaves like the GW washes and really grips to recesses, add PVA glue.
If you want a wash that behaves like a glaze, keeping more translucency rather than pooling just into deep recesses then invest in some matt medium.
If you want neither, just use plain ol' tap water with perhaps a little flow improver.  If your tap water really is that hard, then try to find some distilled water or get a filter of some sort.
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Offline SkullyChaos

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #6 on: March 2, 2009, 09:56:08 PM »
Just a FYI:
Washing the model after it has dried, removes the chalky look.
I tried it again with just water, and then with the PVA (Elmer's FTW) and it came out fine.
I bought a pot of Badab Black wash, and that looked great too.

Lesson's learned:
Soap is a bad idea to use for a wash, and ends up causing more problems in the long run.



PVA glue does work well, but finding the amount to use vs. paint and water took a bit of playing around.



A specific designed wash is the best (suprise suprise!)


« Last Edit: March 5, 2009, 07:08:51 PM by SkullyChaos »

Offline Todosi

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #7 on: March 3, 2009, 02:42:59 AM »
I generally add Future to my washes.  It really makes the washes stay where you want them and it gives nice protection as well.  Also, no chalky residue!

Offline typhon

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #8 on: March 3, 2009, 12:05:27 PM »
I'm currently testing the whole soap Ideas for the paints it does make it covers better but this is for normal paint and not a wash.  But I think with the soap your adding too much a drop of soap to what a couple dabs of paint and a drop or two of water.

I found that soap works best if I wash my hands with soap and rinse of in a cup so it is diluted in the water I use to thin down my paints.

But I am still testing this method so I am no expert but I haven't had anything like that happen.

Plus what primer brand did you use if I  might ask, cause some of them leave a chalky residue on the model.

Offline SkullyChaos

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky"
« Reply #9 on: March 3, 2009, 01:56:49 PM »
I had tried that, with using the rinseing of my hands be the soap, and that is where it came from.
I had tried each limb of the mini with different ammounts of soap for each.
It does break up the pigment, and allow it to spread and get down in there.
But, no matter how little soap I had in the water to use for dilution of the paint, it all had some level of a chalky look to it after it dried.


Offline Hades Hound

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Re: Washes finishing "chalky" [Edit added photos]
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 01:11:30 PM »
I've been using Dawn dish soap in regular paints to turn them into a wash. Normally I add about 4 parts water to every part of paint, and then just a brush tip's worth of the dish soap. We're talking a standard or 0 brush tips worth, not your tank brush. Anyways, I've had chalk appear in the recesses when I used too much soap, but if you limit the amount, it works great, and I don't really have any issues with it.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 01:24:07 PM by Changeyname »

 


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