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Author Topic: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!  (Read 22830 times)

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Offline Aireoth

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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2012, 06:24:34 PM »
Its obvious that it is unfinished. Real or hoax, really it could be either, but the idea that someone would take the massive amount of time to compile rumors about 6e and build a codex from scratch makes me not outright dismiss it.

Remember the real 6e is rumored to be sometime this summer (Q2/3) so their is plenty of time to format and correct errors, even then its just rumor that we will see it within this time.

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Offline Swamp Rat

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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 07:15:39 PM »
The amount of effort taken doesn't prove anything, it was found on 4chan after all. They'll go to some ridiculous lengths to wind people up, and 4chan has been rammed with 40k threads.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone just took an existing system, jigged it up a bit, and then thrown it onto the web.

On the other hand, i'm not a massive fan of the new system, but if it is true, it'll grow on me.
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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 07:22:18 PM »
Its got some very interesting things and things I quite like.  I rather hope its rear, though I'll still be taking it with a grain of salt.  One thing I noticed that no one has mentioned yet is the specific breakdown in order during movement phases.  Stuff arrives from reserve clearly before stuff that they can do 'at the start of the moment phase' which makes life so much simpler with things like eldar psychic  powers on someone coming in from reserve.

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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 07:23:50 PM »
[gmod]Do not distribute "leaked" files. Whether they are legit or not doesn't matter. They claim to be something of GW's which we cannot allow. If people wish to find these files on their own, Google is a wonderful website. Any talk about distributing these files has been and will be removed as a violation of our forum rules regarding copyright infringement.[/gmod]
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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2012, 08:04:13 PM »
I have to agree with Benis. If its impossible for a fan to create then I am going to say thats its going to be close to impossible for a fan to know how perfectly playtested it is and how it fixes every glaring problem ever.  This is done with problems in mind, the GW rulebooks are the set rules for a few years.  A lot of codices get released in that time so there will be problems, but the new rulebook comes along and the cycle starts over.  And GW would NEVER have abbreviations in that number.  They barely have them now from what I remember and if there is there is a explanation in brackets adjacent.  You could go on about how it needs polishing, but it doesnt seem like a game designed for kids twelve and up, and a lot of the time even younger.  GW wouldnt in a million years shake off the lifeblood of young gamers.
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Offline Kogtoof

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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 09:15:18 PM »
I dont know about you guys but I saw alot of repeating paragraphs as though somebody copied and pasted rules. Though if it is a hoax it is a very good one. That being said I think someof these rules are too good/ reasonable to be made by GW.

Offline Disciple of Nagash: GT

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 10:22:50 PM »
Does anyone remember the 5th Ed rule leak several years ago? We all had the same discussion about it, it was in the exact same format as this leaked PDF is now (missing pictures, diagrams and all the fluff). A bit did change between the PDF and the current rulebook but a lot stayed the same. There were plenty of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors within that PDF also, but when the rulebook was released, people were all like "OMG! It was a leaked early rulebook!" This is the same thing. Things are going to change between this PDF and the actual book.

That being said, as far as I can tell it seems pretty legit. My god will it change a lot, and for the better also. Yes, there are a little bit of things that are a little over the top (grenade launchers in combat against large targets???) but there are things that make a lot of sense and it'll drastically change 40k as we know it. I look forward to the new release of the rulebook. There are only a couple of concerns I have, the inclusion for rules for Titans, Gargantuan Creatures and Super Heavy vehicles.
Some of the things that I look forward to:
My raiders are no longer going to be death traps: no more penalty for being open topped :)
Being able to fire one weapon while moving fast in vehicles :)
Tank shocking and dodging of such a move makes more sense now :)
The complete overhaul of how damage to vehicles works (basically cumulative now, getting a stunned result on a vehicle already stunned = weapon destroyed, getting an immobilize result on a vehicle already immobilized = destroyed)
Some things that I'm confused or miffed over:
Splitting fire from vehicles...
Land Raiders ability to now basically flatten anything with very little hurting it back...
Weaponskill taken into consideration against vehicles without one...
The inclusion of points for some ranged weapons and changing of stats/points for them...

This all being said, I doubt if the leak wasn't intentional on the part of GW. It seems too coincidental that the leak would happen like this much in the same way, in the same time frame as the last edition's leak.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 10:46:19 PM by Disciple of Nagash: GT »
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Offline 1-i

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2012, 01:38:34 AM »
Well I just read plenty of it in the end I have one nagging question that is currently left.

A horde of termigaunts with whatever shooty thing has to rely on one bug for the preposed "targeter" rule. Wouldnt the Hive mind maybe have some controll on that, like maybe a synape critter should be the one to make the target decision?

Otherwise it was an interesting read and had some nifty thoughts that I wouldnt mind playtesting.
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Offline HORDE

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 07:06:40 AM »
i read it pretty thoroughly last night.

first thoughts: the game is far more brutal, certainly for infantry. close combat, being wiped out if you're fleeing and within 12 inches of an enemy unit, less cover saves. things like long fangs are severely hurt by this. If they want to fire, they stand still. if they stand still, their evasion goes down and your regular BS4 guy hits them on twos. can you say plasma cannon? (blasts rolling to hit is pretty horrific too).

Tanks. Yeah tanks. It's now easier to hit them. Much. Guardsmen will hit a stationary tank on a 2+ and a moving one on a 3+. marines on a 2+ even if it moved. HOWEVER, with the way the damage table works, its actually harder to kill them. glancing hits are the same, but anything with tank status gives another -1 on the table. AP1 weapons now only negate the -1 for tank status. so a melta penetrating hit is just a straight roll, rather than the 50/50 we have now. The mechanic they've included re: hull breach is very interesting. Plays into MSU armies as multiple stunned results from the same unit won't do anything, but a stunned result from 2 separate units will result in a weapon destroyed. so you can now kill a vehicle with massed glancing hits. as long as you have enough units. Tanks are still going to rule the roost in 40k 6th if these rules are true. Storm Ravens, Land Raiders and Vendettas in particular are going to be a nightmare. especially if the raven and vendetta get flyer status.

Variable movement rates is fantastic. Eldar banshees charging 16 inches is not (scarabs charging 21 inches ain't pretty either, nor is waaghing orcs out of a battlewagon - 28 inches on that bad boy). You can also perform an "engage" move, which lets you get into combat with your charge bonus but also shoot in the same phase if you manage to wipe the enemy out. More importantly, you can perform an engage move after disembarking from a dedicated transport. I go again to our banshee loving friends happily dancing in the corner with their 8 inch transport move, 2 inch disembark and 8 inch charge. Oh, and you can perform an engage move from deep strike. but if you're that close, your enemy will get to shoot you as you come down a la overwatch.

Strategic reserves - great change if it happens. Till the first Deathwing player, deepstrikes 6 DW units in the first turn in his opponents face. All marine drop pod armies are also going to LOVE this as it gives them some real flexibility.

Changes to KP and objectives - like them. Don't like the terribad scenarios in the book.

All in all, if it's true, I think it definately shakes things up. All foot armies get some great advantages against tanks but their survivability will be more limited. razorspam might be sweating a little (I know I am), but since you have to really focus fire to get rid of tanks, some of your transports will get through.

Flyers and Titan rules in the main rulebook and a rulebook scenario that advises 3000 points. Well, once you get your head round it the system isn't that complex and games will go much faster. which means bigger games, which means more toys. That's certainly GWs MO.

As for not alienating youngbloods - there is a disclaimer advising that you play some games with the simple rules first. Perhaps this is the starter set rulebook. It would make sense of GWs new "Core Club" graduating younguns from beginners to vet nights with an intermediate tier where they learn the advanced rules.

Every time i read a new rule i cursed selling my eldar army last year. They really do benefit from the new rules tremendously. so do Tau with the out of phase shooting and lack of cover. I see a return for plasma and flamers (flamer fired in the assault phase if you charge. epic) over melta, which is not so hot now. I see more MSU armies to take advantage of the vehicle damage table. I see less paladin armies and more tyranid armies (see that cleansing flame schtick for purfiers that upsets horde players so much? yeah. meet tyranid monstrous creatures).

The things that make me think its not legit -
1. it's badly written. grammar mistakes, typos, overly complex in many cases and it just isn't in the style of GW. now, if its a draft, grammer and typo is fine, but it is the style of the writing that makes me think its a hoax.
2. The bulk of the changes are ripped straight from what we have seen online over the last 6 months. Possibly because those rules are genuine, but also possibly because its a hoax (caveat: i hadn't seen or heard of rigid saves before i read the book - lending legitimacy).
3. It's a big change. in GWs top selling product. in a time of economic uncertainty. when they are bringing out a new game next year in the hobbit. With the changes it's a better system, no doubt. and a decent business decision (sell more models by making game more interesting to play), especially with warmahordes, malifaux, flames of war et al eating away at their customer base. But when do GW actually make good business decisions? history tells us they don't.
4. GW have cracked down so hard on leaks over the past year. Is it really feasible that they let something like this get out the door? rumours sure, but a whole document?

Things that make me think its legit:
1. GW try to squash the download. Hard. there's no copywright protection on the PDF so they'd be going through NDAs to do this.
2. while a lot of the changes make xenos racces stronger - a lot make marines stronger still ATSKNF ignoring the wipeout effect for fleeing units (being within 12 inches of an unengaged unit? ffs). relentless while in a transport is the biggie. cotez henchmen armies will be wetting their pants given the amount of jokaero and multimelta servitors they can fire out of a chimera.
3. the FAQ update that was leaked with it misses out black templars, necrons and sisters. templars are widely reported to be getting a 6th ed update early, necrons have just had a book so needed no changes (and things in the book made sense, like preferred enemy on destroyers and the weird deathmark deepstrike rule). and sisters....well.... ..they didn't make much effort for the sister last update, why should they FAQ it?
4. you can play bigger games quicker, so you need more toys. that's GWs MO all over.
5. big expensive models like land raiders, storm ravens and flyers are pretty damn good.
6. its a lot of effort to go for for a hoax. mocking up the cover of the nids codex is one thing, but someone has obviously taken some time over this and used GW terminology.
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Offline WilliamT

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Re: 40K sixth edition leak - Can we discuss?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2012, 10:14:19 AM »
I dont know about you guys but I saw alot of repeating paragraphs as though somebody copied and pasted rules. Though if it is a hoax it is a very good one. That being said I think someof these rules are too good/ reasonable to be made by GW.

Completely agree.  Its sheer level of coherency, playability and logic easily reveals that this thing is a hoax and was written by a master-mind too intelligent to work at our favorite "gaming company" (IMHO)!

Somebody should hire this person!

Offline Azonalanthious

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 12:52:41 PM »
The more I flip through this, the more fun ideas it inspires in me.  I quite hope its legit though who knows...  The first idea I really wanna try out if its legit is Grey knights: Mordrak + ghost knights + libby (w/t.homer and summoning) + paladin squad.  17 terminators showing up in your lines with no scatter on turn 1 that can immediately assault, and with 5 attacks (with banner and assault weapons now counting as an extra close combat weapon)...  :D  Just plain nasty.

Course, my beloved orks got all sorts of fun stuff to.  Ork bikes in particular -- still getting the almost vanished 4+ cover from their exhaust clouds and the -1 to evasion, plus can fire their pistols on top of their dakka guns, plus alpha strike rules (orks at I10!  YES PLEASE).  Defensive grot lines, I predict, are going to make a big comeback as the little guys toss themselves into oncoming fire.  Trukks with reinforced rams and the new ramming rules... a 1 in 3 chance to simply kill everything they run over that doesn't have an invulnerable save or multiple wounds?  Heck, I might take these on 30 boy mobs just to send them barreling empty into enemy lines!

Land speeders, one of my favorite marine units, now far harder to hit.  This makes me happy inside.  Dreadnoughts, my other favorite, being turned into slow lumbering targets, not so much, but eh, take the good with the bad I guess.

While in some senses the rules are more complicated, I do think they will make for a faster game.  Wound allocation is generally simpler with the armor group rules, only move models once per turn rather then twice like now, several minor rolls like move through cover and run vanished, only checking one model in a unit for things like range rather then having to check everything, etc.  Should make for a significant increase in speed of gameplay, which means more games at more points in the same time, which is very much a good thing.

Some rules while looking complicated also have a simplify aspect to them to.  Like vehicles being folded more into other units - the just have some special rules now.  That's a direct progression on the way GW has been evolving them: every vehicle had its own rules -> vehicle rules -> units with special rules, pulling them more into a more unified structure with infantry.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 12:57:30 PM by Azonalanthious »

Offline Idaho

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2012, 02:31:04 PM »
The sheer amount of special rules attached to every model makes me feel like it's either a fake or massively early days.

Either way, I'm not too fussed about it and sure it will all work out for the best.

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »
Not to fear, it's a hoax.  Two new stats were added and described, yet not included in the example statline.  The "always strikes first/last" mechanic is back, which would never happen.  "Iron Will" gets dispensed as the "Cold Blooded" USR, making Fearless an even worse alternative than before.  The introduction claims that the new ruleset will speed up the game even more than before, yet there are so many new rules with so many intricate exceptions and counter-exceptions that the opposite would be true.

There's also a rule called "Alpha Strike," which confirms this as a hoax written by the netlist crowd.  It's a shame, since the attempts at adding nuance to the leadership mechanics would have been nice.
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Offline Azonalanthious

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 05:42:16 PM »
Not to fear, it's a hoax.  Two new stats were added and described, yet not included in the example statline.  The "always strikes first/last" mechanic is back, which would never happen.  "Iron Will" gets dispensed as the "Cold Blooded" USR, making Fearless an even worse alternative than before.  The introduction claims that the new ruleset will speed up the game even more than before, yet there are so many new rules with so many intricate exceptions and counter-exceptions that the opposite would be true.

There's also a rule called "Alpha Strike," which confirms this as a hoax written by the netlist crowd.  It's a shame, since the attempts at adding nuance to the leadership mechanics would have been nice.

Evasion and move?  No need to have them in statlines, since evasion is always base 3, and move is determined by model tupe (and really, almost as constant as evasion.  Its 6 for regular, 8 for stuff that moves quickly like bikes, fleet units, or skimmers.  Couple oddballs but I would expect things to be standardized in the final draft).  Would almost have to be handled that way unless they went back and re-wrote every statline from every codex.  Alpha strike is a horrible name.  However, the rule itself is ok, basically just the same effect (though approached backwards...)  as the current charging into cover rule, plus a benefit for attacking a unit already in combat.  Names are the last thing I would look at for hoax or not as they are probably the simplest and easiest thing to change from a draft.  Without playing some true games with the system its hard to say for sure, but I disagree with the speed.  I think once folks were used to this ruleset, it would indeed go faster as I commented on in an above post.

Offline WisdomLS

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 06:25:48 PM »
I would also agree that the game would play faster with this ruleset, there's less rolling done in a standard turn than before, movement done all at once and all the standardization will make things run quite smoothly.

Learning the rules on the other hand will take quite some time and the first few games would be very slow but I would assume if these do turn out to be the actual rules then the finalized version will be more streamlined and have simpler discriptions.


The stats missing from the sample stat line is a moot point as it explains that they are not there as they are dependent on unit type and are standard numbers.

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 09:05:53 PM »
Quote from:  4chan
I'm sorry everyone. I found out about this "6th leak" yesterday while at my FLGS painting, looked at it with astonishment...

The 6th book was written by me and some friends for our FLGS. We wanted to break off and play 40k our way by combining various rule sets and just making life easier on our games. It was once a pile of notes just laying around until one of our players decided to make it "real" - he already apparently made an attempt with an earlier document (as some have noticed.) This time he just took it to far, and my store's group wants to apologize on his behalf.

Feel free to use the rules, we enjoy them very much and they do fix 40k for our personal needs. Yes they are well written - it is far easier to use and explain to new players when it is a formatted document and not piles of hand written text. We simply modified the 5th rules.

You need not believe me if you want to get your hopes up. I simply wish to apologize to those who will for our 'friend' who simply took a job of formatting friendly rules into "real GW rules."


this was posted on another site that the poster says comes from 4chan and /tg/ ?    again take with salt :P


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Offline Admiral Dred

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 10:18:56 PM »
That could be legit, considering how the book was written.
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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 10:42:13 PM »
So far, I don't like what I'm hearing.  Granted, I haven't read these rules myself, and my fellow eldar players seem to like them so far, but most of what I've heard is a bit of a turn-off. 

Sounds like mechanized armies will be even more prevalent, if more killable.  I sort of wanted to see infantry armies become more viable, not less.  If any more emphasis is put on purchasing vehicles for the game, I'm not sure you'll see me playing much in the future.

Flamers hitting infantry inside of vehicles sounds nice and all, but then I realize that my eldar are currently pretty dependent on *not* getting hit by incoming attacks before they leave their transport.  At least spiders and hawks can potentially arrive with scattering and all that, but that hasn't generally been a problem for me in the past.

Is there anything positive in there for those of us who like relatively small armies with a low number of vehicles?

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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 10:47:37 PM »
Quote from:  4chan
I'm sorry everyone. I found out about this "6th leak" yesterday while at my FLGS painting, looked at it with astonishment...

The 6th book was written by me and some friends for our FLGS. We wanted to break off and play 40k our way by combining various rule sets and just making life easier on our games. It was once a pile of notes just laying around until one of our players decided to make it "real" - he already apparently made an attempt with an earlier document (as some have noticed.) This time he just took it to far, and my store's group wants to apologize on his behalf.

Feel free to use the rules, we enjoy them very much and they do fix 40k for our personal needs. Yes they are well written - it is far easier to use and explain to new players when it is a formatted document and not piles of hand written text. We simply modified the 5th rules.

You need not believe me if you want to get your hopes up. I simply wish to apologize to those who will for our 'friend' who simply took a job of formatting friendly rules into "real GW rules."


this was posted on another site that the poster says comes from 4chan and /tg/ ?    again take with salt :P

I call bullamphetamine parrot on this post. If everything was taken from hand written notes about this and that, then why would the document leave room for diagrams and the like? This document is formatted EXACTLY the same way as the 5th Ed leaked rulebook was, which when it was released, was similar to the leak with tweaks here and there. There is WAY too much playtesting and time involved to write something like that for an amateur to do unless it was his job to do so. I personally would like to see a link to the original post because I have a feeling that the account created to post it is in fact a dummy account that someone created to try and dispell the leak.
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Re: 40K Sixth edition "leak" - Ooooh nurse!
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2012, 01:42:00 AM »
So far, I don't like what I'm hearing.  Granted, I haven't read these rules myself, and my fellow eldar players seem to like them so far, but most of what I've heard is a bit of a turn-off. 

Sounds like mechanized armies will be even more prevalent, if more killable.  I sort of wanted to see infantry armies become more viable, not less.  If any more emphasis is put on purchasing vehicles for the game, I'm not sure you'll see me playing much in the future.

Flamers hitting infantry inside of vehicles sounds nice and all, but then I realize that my eldar are currently pretty dependent on *not* getting hit by incoming attacks before they leave their transport.  At least spiders and hawks can potentially arrive with scattering and all that, but that hasn't generally been a problem for me in the past.

Is there anything positive in there for those of us who like relatively small armies with a low number of vehicles?

While its hard to say for sure without some actual play testing, I actually don't feel like tanks gain much in power overall with this, and non-tank non-skimmer vehicles actually took a nerf.  Yeah, the tanks got some bonuses, but I feel like those are balanced out by the downsides of being far easier to hit with shooting attacks now and the way vehicle damage stacks.

For infantry, I haven't spotted the actual rule for this yet (I've been doing a lot of jumping around and skimming not a proper cover to cover read) so if someone else has, please point it out, but there are several references that indicate/imply that regular gropos might get to fire twice when stationary.  And there are conditions where they can fire in enemy turns, including into a unit about to assault them in some cases.  Movement for infantry in general is now faster due to a run roll effectively always being a 6 now.  Overall, I feel that infantry, particularly shootie infantry, gain more then vehicles do.  But that's just my initial impression.  Playtesting would be needed for an accurate assessment, and even then who knows what might change between now and publication.

I call bullamphetamine parrot on this post. If everything was taken from hand written notes about this and that, then why would the document leave room for diagrams and the like? This document is formatted EXACTLY the same way as the 5th Ed leaked rulebook was, which when it was released, was similar to the leak with tweaks here and there. There is WAY too much playtesting and time involved to write something like that for an amateur to do unless it was his job to do so. I personally would like to see a link to the original post because I have a feeling that the account created to post it is in fact a dummy account that someone created to try and dispell the leak.

Agreed.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced that this is legit.  But I am convinced that if its a fake, its an intentional fake/troll, not what that guy was describing.  I can accept that a local group could write up these rules, and that one of the guys could/would type them up, though they are complex/through enough to make that seem a bit iffy (I'm big on custom rules in my D&D games myself and I've done A LOT of custom stuff with that for various games over the years.  But nothing has ever ended up even close to 167 pages, even counting fluff).  But I don't buy that they would be in the format they are in, with the frequent <insert diagram/picture> slots in this document and other formatting things.  And there are a lot of rules in here that didn't change -- why type up a whole section of how an attack roll works in close combat when it works exactly the way  (well, the to-hit table itself changed, but the basics of match WS to WS and roll didn't) it does in the regular rules and you are playing with a group of guys that already know the game (based on what was said in the post), for example?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 02:02:27 AM by Azonalanthious »

 


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