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Author Topic: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique  (Read 3509 times)

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Offline Shinrathir

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1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« on: March 15, 2008, 12:21:35 PM »
Hello, I was hoping to get a bit of a critique of a balanced Eldar Army list I've been working on for a while.  It's a counter-striking force that's designed to have a dangerous fire-base with a strong, highly-mobile assault element to take advantage of the enemy stringing out it's forces as it moves to engage.  Please let me know what you think as any suggestions would be helpful.  Thanks in advance.

 Farseer: Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones (attached to Scorpions)

 9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch (Biting Blade)
 Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Bright Lance

 5 x Fire Dragons + Exarch (Firepike)
 Falcon; Scatter Laser

 10 x Guardians + Bright Lance

 10 x Guardians + Bright Lance

 5 x Rangers

 8 x Dire Avengers + Exarch (Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield, Defend)
 Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

 5 x Swooping Hawks + Exarch (Sunrifle, Skyleap, Intercept)

 4 x Dark Reapers + Exarch (Fast Shot)

 4 x Dark Reapers + Exarch (Fast Shot)
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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 01:35:13 PM »
Okay, hope this proves of some use to you. Since you've asked for a critique, that's what I'm offering first and foremost, though we can always tweak stuff later on. I'll be using my 5/5 system outlined below:

Quote
1-Background    Some info about the army, enemy, theatre and strategy
2-Composition   Weighted distribution amongst FOC slots
3-Utility            Units are suited to their task/not overupgraded
4-Flexibility        Army shows variety and units are versatile
5-Ingenuity       Strategies, Combos and backup plans have been considered

Each of the above five areas can earn up to 1 point each, for a maximum score of five. A score of 3 indicates a solid list, with scores of 4 or higher being very good.

Each section receives one of the following scores:
0.0: Little thought given to addressing this area
0.5: Moderate thought given to addressing this area
1.0: Thorough thought given to addressing this area

Background: 0
You've given a little bit of info about what the list is, but not necessarily where you want to go with it or what you expect to face. This kind of info is very helpful when offering assistance later on. Additionally, apart from your brief tactical description, you have included no reasons for your unit selection, or if you are willing to change things around. More completeness in presenting your list helps others to understand it better and to offer useful advice, rather than a bunch of unapplicable ideas. You also have no costs listed for your units - this is important because it helps determine where points can be played with as well as how heavily you are committing to each area of the FOC. Finally, the falcon is inconspicuously hidden in with your elite section, which can lead people to assume you are unaware that it remains a heavy support choice and as a reult may have to deploy independently of the fire dragons in Omega missions.

Composition: .5
You have a good spread of different units and cover a fair number of roles with them, but you are very weak in the assault phase. At the 1850 level it is difficult to ignore what is effectively 33% of the game. You may want to consider incorporating another competent assault squad.

Utility: 1
Very few points invested in upgrades throughout this list; most of your units tend to focus on a particular job and aim to do that job effectively. Good tactical synergy will help the units support each other.

Flexibility: .5
Many of your units have a limited range of effective targets and additionally many of them will suffer in various game phases due to an aggravated weakness towards the assault. Fast-moving assault armies, such as biker or Nid swarms, will probably give you nightmares. Also, you've got a bt of a vulnerability to dealing with horde-style armies in terms of your damage output. You may want to consider this as you revise your list.

Ingenuity: 0
No account has been given of unit tactics, army strategies, or consideration of opponents and scenarios. Without thinking of your list in a tactical sense, and describing what you will be doing and how you intend to do it, there is not much basis for offering help - a unit of hawks, for instance, cannot take on everything; without knowing what you're up against or what you intend to do and how, there's no reason to select hawks over anything else in the army. More work needs to be done in this area.

Total Score: 2
More development needs to be done before this list can really shine. Think about how you intend to use it and who you intend to use it against. As you flesh out your strategies more, some of the selections you have made may need to be altered.

Offline ranger_55

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 01:58:45 PM »
scorpions
I'm not a big fan of the biting blade..I always use the claw, S6 all of the time and more importantly ignores armor, the rest of the sqaud (especially with fortune) will soak up hits as the exarch cannot be targeted (except with things like mind war etc) And I would also thing about brining the squad up to 10...check how many models a wave serpent can hold...

fire dragons
I think they exarch is a waste of points unless you give him the flamer for more flexibility (and crack shot to give more wounds) firepike is worthless for its points (including exarch)

Falcon
Why not give it a starcannon, that give you a defined role of anti heavy infantry with 4 ap2 shots

Guardians
The bright lance is too unreliable for BS3, try using scatterlasers or starcannons here, think about adding a few more to the squads (3) or consider a warlock with conceal. Guardians are often underestimated but if you get a full squad of 20 to unload into an enemy infantry squad they are going to deal some major damage, they can move and fire for a reason.

rangers
rangers are good, pathfinders are better...enough said

Dire avengers
Don't try to use a ranged squad for close combat.

Hawks
I don't use them so I can't say for sure

Reapers
Good unit, big target. There are better heavy choices I think..like wraithlords.
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Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 04:06:05 PM »
Thank you for the advice... especially Gutstikk as I can now see why it took people a while to make any comment on the list as there isn't too much to go on.

I'll try to give a little more information based on your 5 point criteria and address some of the areas you identified as weak so that you'll be able to give me some more helpful advice.

Background:  What I'm trying to build is a balanced, tournament style list that can be competitive against most armies and styles of play.  I'm sure it's still a far cry from that point... but that's the idea.  I want to keep it fairly aspect warrior heavy... as this is what attracted me to the Eldar in the first place and there's not much point in playing the army if you're not having fun with it! ;D  As per not listing point values... I thought GW and the site as a whole got very cranky if you posted those so I removed them.

Composition:  I never really thought about the army being weak in close combat... but now that you mention it... I suppose it is a little lite in that area isn't it?  I guess I figured that a full squad of Fortuned Scorpions (it is a full squad BTW, I always list Exarch's as separate when I write up my lists but I'll need to think seriously about the Scorpion Claw) with Doom on their opponents would eventually munch their way through just about anything.

What might you suggest to bring it up a bit?  I'm definitely a fan of Shining Spears... and I've been toying with the idea swapping out the Dark Reapers and Rangers for two squads of them and going for a more mobile list.

Hadn't thought about what listing the Falcon like that looked like either.  I know it's Heavy Support... but I hadn't considered having to field it separately.  I've also been toying with the idea of dropping the Fire Pike and switching some stuff around so that it's a full squad of ten in a Wave Serpent with Star-cannons.

Utility I got good marks in so I'm not going to worry about that one too much...

Flexibility:  Hadn't realized that it was going to be quite that vulnerable to fast or Horde armies either... I'm certainly open in suggestions in this regard.

Ingenuity: Alright... the idea is that the Reapers and Guardians form a fire base taking as much advantage of cover and LOS as possible.  Each Reaper squad will be screened by a Guardian Squad (may well go for star cannons)... and if at all possible... they'll be separated from each other by a bit of territory so it'll take at least one movement phase to get between one and the other.

The goal of the fire base is for it to lay down enough firepower to coax out some of the enemy assault forces lest they get shot up.  Meanwhile... the faster elements will swoop around to the wings threatening to pounce on anything that gets too isolated.  So in effect... the two fire bases are a lure designed to break up and separate out the enemies forces so that the more mobile elements can pounce on what ever is left vulnerable.

The Rangers are there to try and pin things and further break up any assault force... while the Hawks mission is to take out enemy armour and otherwise harass and draw off my opponents forces.

If confronted with an all out assault... the scorpions are designed to go out and get stuck in ahead of the gun line... and just draw in as much as possible into the combat.  They may not win... but they'll tie up a lot of stuff for a very long time... so long as the Dragons, Avengers and Reapers pick off anything too threatening before it can get to them.

If very shooty... well... CHARGE!  The list has a fast striking elememt and I'll hopefully be able to isolate and overwhelm a flank and start rolling it up while the fire base draws fire and does what damage it can to the units that can down my transports.

These are my preliminary thoughts anyway... oh... and I'm completely unattached to the Reaper Exarchs.  I ran some numbers on them... and unless you want to kit them with a Missle or Tempest Launcher... they're totaly not worth the points... and possibly not even then.  So that's about 64 extra points to play with right there.  Thanks for the help.
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Offline Scalu

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 04:15:09 PM »
I better point out that if your farseer is with the scorpians in the Wave Serpent, you cannot Doom and Fortune units.

I agree that the Biting Blade isn't as good as the Scorpians Claw overall.  The only thing it really excels at is charging non-skimmer vehicles.  You have plenty of anti-vehicle in your army without needing this.

The Dark Reaper Exarches would benifit more from crack shot than fast shot since they don't have the EML.  I often use a crack shot exarch myself, and he's great when the unit is shooting space marines in cover.

The FD Exarch with the Firepike is a bit of non-optimally spent points.  I use it as well, along with crack shot and tank hunters, so I waste even more points, but it is a fun aspect of my army for me.

I think I pretty much agree with everything else.  Let us know if you plan on changing anything.



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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 05:12:20 PM »
Sometimes it takes me a little while to get around to critiquing things for people, but I'm sick this past week, so I've caught up a little bit. Also, I don't critique lists unless a request for a critique is made; otherwise I assume people are looking for help. But since you want to change some stuff around a bit, let me add a word of caution before you tear it up too much. Army lists generally can't be gold in every situation; almost all of them have a weakness somewhere. The important thing is that you account for that weakness. An all shooting list isn't bad, even though it has no assault capability whatsoever, so long as you have taken it into account and have a plan to avoid getting into combat. So, look carefully at what you plan on doing and be sure that change is needed before making changes.

Now I'm going to address some of your newer points:
Points cost for the unit as a whole are okay. Don't list points for individual models or specific upgrades. For instance, this is okay:
178pts: 6 Spotted Lycontheraptors, 3 with powerfists, 1 missile launcher

This is not okay:
178pts: 6 spotted Lycontheraptors [20pts each] with 3 powerfists [15pts each] and a missile launcher [13pts]

The point total for the whole squad is okay to post in both cases; it's the individual costs in the second example that make it bad.

One assault unit at 1850 points means that an opponent could hit it with shooting attacks that ignore its save, or tie it up with an equally good assault unit and walk around them, or strike at a point far away from this one unit. The scorps are good, don't get me wrong, it's just that at this point level a balanced list will probably want 2-3 assault squads. Keep in mind though that good tactics can eliminate the need for assault units altogether, or eliminate the need for shooting units in an all assault list. First check your tactics, then mess around with your units; none of us advocate buying new models if a tactical shift will fix the problem.

Flexibilty comes at the cost of utility - my critique system has some checks and balanaces built in; it makes it hard to score perfect marks while not favoring a particular army style. Some people prefer units designed to be excellent at their particular job, and don't waste points on auxillary upgrades. An example in the clearest form is a squad of 10 banshees, with no exarch. These will mow through marines and guardsmen just fine and will suffer and perish vs anything with higher toughness or larger numbers [like a squad of 30 orks]. The banshees also will serve no purpose against an enemy who fields nothing but vehicles, as the basic banshee cannot hurt armor at all. Dire Avengers cannot do anything vs enemies with toughness 8, or vehicles over armor 10, no matter what you add to the squad. So that's the tradeoff; flexibility is nice but costs points while utility is cost efficient but can leave you vulnerable.

Ingenuity: Something you may wish to consider is that if you are stuck in assault much of your stuff will not be able to shoot over combat, meaning your shooting units become restricted once combat begins and it is like you are suddenly playing with half your force. This means that, for a large shooting base, you will need to coordinate your firing positions and firing lanes to allow you to continue shooting as much as possible. You don't want an enemy who can get into combat with your shooting squads effectively negating your units that are not yet in combat as well.

Last but not least, consider what you might do if faced with a specialized army. Deathwing Terminators are one example, but I'll offer you one I can describe from experience. In addition to my Eldar I have an all-biker Ork army. All of my models carry their own cover save, so AP weapons mean nothing to them. All of my models have high toughness, all of them have lots of high strength shooting, and all of them move between 12-24 inches a turn. This army is very nasty against Eldar in particular because it neuters so many of the Eldar strengths. On the other hand, it tends to suffer vs massed quantities of mid Str shooting, such as heavy bolters and shuriken cannons, and has leadership issues which pinning weapons can exploit. It's the sort of army that catches a lot of people by surprise. If you plan on tournament play, you will need to consider some of the stranger lists you may have to face, and plan for what you will do when your army is screwed and nothing is going as planned.

Anyone can point out the optimal uses of a unit and construct an army that works well in its ideal situations; but when you are stuck using whatever you have, even in its worst-case scenario, you have to think around your weaknesses.

Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 08:07:44 PM »
Thank-you very much for your critique Gutstikk I really appreciate it.  In response to Scalu... I don't understand.  Why can't my Farseer Fortune the Scorpions every turn and Doom a unit it is about to Assault? There's nothing in the rules that prevent this that I can see.  In fact... GW lists these uses as possibilities in some of their tactical articles (Doom with Banshees and Fortune with Seer Council to be specific).  What rules conflict are you thinking of?
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Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 08:09:22 AM »
Alright... did my homework and here's what I've got for a revised list:

 133 pts. Farseer: Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones, Witch Blade (attached to Scorpions)

 187 pts. 9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch (Scorpion's Claw)
 135 pts. Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Bright Lance

 177pts. 9 x Fire Dragons + Exarch (Dragon's Breath, Crack Shot)
 125pts. Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Star Cannon

 105 pts. 10 x Guardians + Star Cannon

 150pts. 8 x Dire Avengers + Exarch (Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield, Defend)

 150 pts. 8 x Dire Avengers + Exarch (Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield,Defend)
 100pts. Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon

 173pts. 5 x Swooping Hawks + Exarch (Sunrifle, Skyleap, Intercept)

 237pts. 4 x Shining Spears + Exarch (Star Lance, Skilled Rider, Withdraw)

 175 pts. 5 x Dark Reapers

Total Points: 1847pts.
Total Models: 65 + 3 Vehicles

The basic premise of the army is roughly the same... but my ideas are a little firmer on how to co-ordinate the elements:

The Reapers and their Guardian screen are are a lure.  They will draw assault elements to them, draw fire to them, or failing that... they will deny the enemy movement or access to a particular area of the board.

The foot slogging Dire Avengers will fleet forward... and either press the attack against a static army or fallback while sustaining fire.  They have defend and the shimmer shield so that they can stall an attack for a turn or two.

Then we have the anvil of my attack force.  The Serpent mounted avengers will co-ordinate with the Scorpions.  Both will disembark with their Serpents screening the Scorpions... and the Avengers will dismount in front of their target.  Avengers shoot... and hopefully provoke an assault.  They use the shimmer shield and defend to minimize the casualties... and the Scorpions jump in on the following turn to mop up.

My hope is to be able to extract the Avengers... but then get the Scorpions to act like an assault magnet... with the avengers hosing down units that are about to join the big scrap with the incredibly resistant fortuned scorpions and their doomed opponents. If I can't extract the avengers... well... I can live with that if it starts really sucking in my enemies forces.  Maybe they'll even get so frustrated with their inability to finish off the Scorpions that they'll forget about their objectives... mmmm. I also threw in the Singing Spear so that I wouldn't get nerfed by things I couldn't wound.

Which brings us to the hammer.  The spears and the dragons will coordinate.  There are very few units that can be picked on by this duo and not come out the worse for wear.  The Dragons will pick on a flank... hopefully wiping out or crippling whatever unit they fire on while the spears attack whatever unit is in range to counter-assault.  The spears hold them up for a turn... and then withdraw leaving me free to finish off the flank or mount up... wing off to another part of the board and repeat the process on another two squads.  The spears can also help out either Avenger squad by yo-yoing in and out of combat if the need is there.

The Hawks still have anti-tank duty.  They will drop in behind cover... fleet... assault... and scrap a tank almost for sure (For clarity... I know you can't assault on the turn you arrive).  If they get in trouble they can Sky Leap and do it again.  If not, they can keep harassing a flank and hopefully draw off some attackers which I can then leave high and dry with Sky Leap.

Serpents are now all optimized to support their squad.  Scorpion's serpent will crack open armour so that they can assault, the Dragon's Serpent will lend them some additional fire support to help them wipe out their target, and the Avengers Serpent will do like wise.
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Offline ranger_55

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 08:51:30 AM »
Quote
Why can't my Farseer Fortune the Scorpions every turn and Doom a unit it is about to Assault

I believe what he was talking about was that you cannot use those powers while they are in the transport, so they will not be able to use them the turn they get out (maybe the most important turn), but after that they can doom and fortune all they want.
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Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 09:14:59 AM »
Thanks Ranger_55.  I figured it out after I posted it... but at the time I was concerned that I'd overlooked something.  Thanks again.
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 09:29:41 AM »
oo.. that list is a far cry from the first one... lets see... if it was my army heres what id go about looking at: (please remember this is a lot of personal preference)

keep your old fire dragon / falcon combo... this is a superb pairing.

give the wave serpent to the second dire avenger unit.

drop the wave serpent from the scorps, give them infiltrate. (this will help buy the falcon back)

id drop the shining spears... ive never been a fan. but in their place i might use a small unit of warp spiders. (left over points will help pay for falcon with maybe some spare)

if you are tight for points... then drop one dark reaper... and take a unit of 4 instead. overall, you should be in the green on points... my port of call would be looking to fit in a cheap autarch... his reserves re-roll is useful with all those tanks... plus he can be equipped to aid one or more type of aspect unit...

i use mine these days alongside my warp spiders... works a treat. but i have used him next to hawks and even a cheap and basic chap alongside dire avengers is more effective than is often given credit for...

your list has definately changed to a more mechanised feel... you have to be careful that your guardians and dark reapers dont get left stranded or out of the game... they are now your firebase and should probably be deployed close to each other for support... you might find it useful to keep the seer close by, fortuning one or other and dooming other targets further afield. again, if you can get a warlock for the guardians then conceal or embolden is a good idea (although not absolutely necessary it does make a big difference).


Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 09:47:22 AM »
Heh oink... thanks for the input.  I'll certainly take a look at your suggestions, especially seeing as how I don't want to have to purchase any more models than necessary and to use as many of the ones I have as possible.

Won't infiltrated Scoripions get shot to pieces... or left high and dry as their targets run away from them and they can't fleet after them?  In a city fight I'd do it in a heartbeat... but in a regular game of 40k... I'm a little more leary.

As for the Spears... well... I love Spears.  But to be perfectly honest... I also love Spiders... and without going over my points limit I can swap that squad out one for one for 7 Spiders and an Exarch (Spinneret, Withdraw) and will probably do so from time to time.

Question though.  If I went back to the Dragon/Falcon Combo, would you suggest keeping the Dragon's Breath Flamer with Crack Shot, or would you just lose the exarch altogether?
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2008, 10:45:09 AM »
well i run mine with the dragons breath... but dont bother with crack shot... i find that 5 normal fire dragons should be enough to kill any tank... (bar maybe a monolith - but thats another story)... the flamer increases the units potential versus any infantry inside a blown up transport for example. if you wanted to you could drop the exarch. thats a points saving exercise that doesnt really affect the effectiveness of the unit as a whole.

infiltrated scorps can be tricky to use. you dont want to leave them high and dry... either in deployment or as the enemy runs away from them. however, you have to consider them as part of your overall force...

having so much fast moving stuff means that you can really support those scorpions. they wont be left on their own because you can get to them with aid, or, if the enemy wants to run away from them, then your fast movers can block... stuck between a rock and a hard place!

Offline ranger_55

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2008, 01:29:07 PM »
Some rangers infiltrating with the scorpions can help them out, deploy them in front of the scorpions to force priority checks to shoot the rangers with their improved cover save.

Back in 3rd ed. I used scorpions in a wave serpent and found it effective then, I think it can be almost just as effective now although I have switched to banshees.

As far as crack shot on the exarch oink is right the only reason its there is to improve the wound rolls with the exarch then finish everything else off with fusion guns. as far as anti tank goes 5 are more than enough as I think most people will agree with.
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Offline Green Feevah!

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2008, 04:49:47 PM »
If you want to use your farseer's powers on the turn your scorpions do their thing (whether that's deploying from a serpent or charging from infiltrating) you'd be better off putting him on a jetbike so he can cast his powers.  He casts them at the beginning of the turn, and if he's in the serpent, according to the latest ruling, means he has no LOS (even to the troops he's standing right next to in the tank... lame).

As for the infiltrating, if you plan on having 2 or 3 serpents full of aspect warriors and a falcon  full of dragons, you should force a priority check for your opponent.  I don't mean a leadership check, I mean 'oh crap, if I focus fire on these scorpions, I'm going to get bladestormed to death next turn... which one do I shoot?'  You have enough fast-moving units to make sure he's not fully focusing fire, because if he ignores something, then he'll pay for it next turn.  That said expect to take casualties.

I have to agree about the spears though... spiders are better almost every single time.  And cheaper.  And more men on the field.  And can be kitted out better.

Otherwise, good strong start to a Biel-Tan list.

Offline Scalu

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2008, 06:21:54 PM »
If you want to use your farseer's powers on the turn your scorpions do their thing (whether that's deploying from a serpent or charging from infiltrating) you'd be better off putting him on a jetbike so he can cast his powers.  He casts them at the beginning of the turn, and if he's in the serpent, according to the latest ruling, means he has no LOS (even to the troops he's standing right next to in the tank... lame).

Be careful here.  He has to use those powers before the movement phase, and the Scorpians might be just getting out on the movement phase, in which case you cannot Fortune them.

  If they are infiltrating, then the Farseer on a jetbike can probably get within fortuning range on turn 1 with the help of turbo-boost, and have them fortuned on turn 2 for the charge.  If you want to try that, you could drop their waveserpent and try getting the falcon again.
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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 08:08:52 AM »
like has been said though.. im not even sure that is necessary... those scorps, if infiltrating for the aggressive assault... should be in cover (or untargetable behind it). this means that they will have their 3+ armour or 4/5+ cover IF the enemy can shoot at them... fortuning them isnt as big a deal in my opinion... (the same can be said for the dark reapers).

to be honest, it does depend how you want to use the farseer. i mean, within your firebase, fortune will most benefit the guardians... but used a little more aggressively - as in, with the avengers then this changes how he plays slightly. if used in a transport then it might be worth using eldritch storm... this is far more aggressive play but might be worth it for the additional help to your avengers! (plus the annoyances it can cause to enemy tanks!)

Offline moc065

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2008, 08:42:56 AM »

 Farseer: Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones (attached to Scorpions)

 9 x Striking Scorpions + Exarch (Biting Blade)
 Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Bright Lance

 5 x Fire Dragons + Exarch (Firepike)
 Falcon; Scatter Laser

 10 x Guardians + Bright Lance

 10 x Guardians + Bright Lance

 5 x Rangers

 8 x Dire Avengers + Exarch (Power Weapon, Shimmer Shield, Defend)
 Wave Serpent; Twin Linked Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

 5 x Swooping Hawks + Exarch (Sunrifle, Skyleap, Intercept)

 4 x Dark Reapers + Exarch (Fast Shot)

 4 x Dark Reapers + Exarch (Fast Shot)


Effectiveness Rating

1.. Anti-tank potential: 6/10 units have anti-tank and others have some potential for side/rear armour as wel, so overall this area is; Good (.8 )
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: Dedicated Shooting against MEQ, and some good CC potential has this area doin well; Very Good (.9)
3.. Anti-Horde potential: What works on MEQ and Armour can often work on Hordes if you have the numbers to go with it, which you do; Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: No doubt about it, you have plenty of Lange, Mid and Short ranged fire-power for a nice Balance; Very Good (.9)
5.. Assault potential: Here you lack a little as there are few Good Assault units, although you do compensate for this with soem other things, overall your potential here could be better; Average (.6)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 9 at 1850 is about; Average (.6)
7.. Durability or Resilience: Certain things are resilient and others have the potential to be so if used well; but overall its just; Above Average (.7)
8.. Flexability: Here I do see some realy good points, but there are some weaknesses due to lack of unit diversity; Average (.7)
9.. Mission Capabiliy: Its not geared for anything specific and it covers a decent range, but it doesn't account for some of the usual Scernerios/Missions, so overall its just; Average (.6)
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: The Guardians and Rangers pull away from part of the theme, and I don't think they add mcuh tot he synergy either; Below Average (.4)

Rating = 7/10 Others may score it differently, and I know that you ahve tried to adjust some things from the original; but I stuck to the original as it had more attributes for others to learn from.

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Offline Green Feevah!

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 04:24:10 PM »
I was thinking more for the Doom than the fortune.  I agree that Scorpions don't really need to use fortune if moved well.  Use your cover and line up your assaults to minimize counter-assaults/next turn shooting (assuming you wipe out the squad you're hitting).


And W00T!  100 posts!  I'm a real Eldar player now! (I guess the last 6 years don't count ;))

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Re: 1850 pts. Balanced Biel-Tan list in need of critique
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 04:35:16 PM »
Welcome to the projects board, sucka!

Really, go check it out, and see if there's anything you're interested in contributing. There's a couple of us active down there, and we like extra input where it's possible. If you have a tactical article or anything you'd like to write to commemorate your 100th post, you'll never get a better chance!

 


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