Topic: Eldar players ideas for change

[The BoogerMan]

I agree with you on this; something needs to be fixed here. This also makes the warp spiders surprise assault meaningless.
Could just make the spinner assault 2, and two spinners are assault 3?

The blog: Eldar experimental rules

The above was from SnakeEyes.  (Oops!  Sorry!  That was the first time that I had used the Quote option.  )


Yeah dude, you're absolutely right.  I hadn't even thought about the Suprise Assault power.  This issue does make it a very expensive, yet weak, option doesn't it? 


The BoogerMan

[Roy]

Yeah dude, you're absolutely right.  I hadn't even thought about the Suprise Assault power.  This issue does make it a very expensive, yet weak, option doesn't it? 

The BoogerMan

But that goes for alot of the exharc powers

Surprise Assault, Defend, Evade, hit n run,

My suggestions for new Exharc powers are:

Banshee: swift, allows 2 rolls for FoF, choose highest
Avenger: Defend, as conceal
Scorp, FoF

Fast shot could be available for most aspects, especially DA

But any suggestions here are welcome

[small_furry_spider]

FoF for scorpions could cause severe problems as it could be combined with infiltrate, meaning a good chance of assaulting on the first turn (12" away behnd a wood, an ok FoF roll and you are in assault). It would break things and cause lots of complaints as everyone would take it.

[Roy]

FoF for scorpions could cause severe problems as it could be combined with infiltrate, meaning a good chance of assaulting on the first turn (12" away behnd a wood, an ok FoF roll and you are in assault). It would break things and cause lots of complaints as everyone would take it.

Hmm, good point. Scratch that idea :p

[MrWacko]

FoF for scorpions could cause severe problems as it could be combined with infiltrate, meaning a good chance of assaulting on the first turn (12" away behnd a wood, an ok FoF roll and you are in assault). It would break things and cause lots of complaints as everyone would take it.

That can be fixed by either not allowing both the Stealth power and FoF power, or adding in a special clause to the FoF power saying that it can't be used on the first turn if they infiltrated.

Or, Scorps still have heavy armor.  Maybe the FoF rule for people in heavy armor should be changed to D3 (or D6; roll of 1, 2 = +1"; 3, 4 = +2"; 5, 6 = +3").  Fluf wize that would make a little more sense, as All Eldar are going to be fast to a degree, just that the bulky armor slows them down marginally, not completly.

[small_furry_spider]

I agree D3 would make more sense fluff wise, but you might have to have the no FoF if they have just infiltrated as well, or there would be the same problem. At the minute, nothing can start 12" from the enemy and move more than 6". Hmmm, "Scorpion rush", no, that just sounds wrong

[rax]

Another solution would be to simply alter the Exarch's Stealth power so that it always allows infiltration, even in missions that don't normally allow infiltration. No real change in the effectiveness of the power on the battlefield - you just get to use it more often.

As for the Banshee Exarch's powers - what's wrong with Acrobatic? The function of the power in 3rd ed was (as I understand it - I never played 3rd ed) to let her single out a model to attack. All that needs be done is to rephrase the power in 4th ed so that she can allocate her attacks against any single model involved in close combat with her squad.


Cheers - Rax

[Roy]

Another solution would be to simply alter the Exarch's Stealth power so that it always allows infiltration, even in missions that don't normally allow infiltration. No real change in the effectiveness of the power on the battlefield - you just get to use it more often.

As for the Banshee Exarch's powers - what's wrong with Acrobatic? The function of the power in 3rd ed was (as I understand it - I never played 3rd ed) to let her single out a model to attack. All that needs be done is to rephrase the power in 4th ed so that she can allocate her attacks against any single model involved in close combat with her squad.


Cheers - Rax

Nothing wrong with acrobatic at all. But it would be nice to see more alternatives. I'd like to see more choices. And Autarchs might be able to wield three exharc powers, so alternatives are useful.

FoF for scorps isn't neccesary, but a ruling stating teh exharc may not take both Fof and Stealth at the same time might solve the issue. Either Fof or infiltrate.

[rax]

Nothing wrong with acrobatic at all. But it would be nice to see more alternatives. I'd like to see more choices. And Autarchs might be able to wield three exharc powers, so alternatives are useful.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood - thought you (and others) were after a complete revamp of the Exarch powers.

FoF for scorps isn't neccesary, but a ruling stating teh exharc may not take both Fof and Stealth at the same time might solve the issue. Either Fof or infiltrate.

Not sure if you're answering me here, but I wasn't suggesting improved Stealth + FoF. I don't think Scorpions should have FoF at all, in fact - being able to infiltrate at will should be enough of an advantage.


Cheers - Rax

[Iron-Hand Ace]

Not sure if you're answering me here, but I wasn't suggesting improved Stealth + FoF. I don't think Scorpions should have FoF at all, in fact - being able to infiltrate at will should be enough of an advantage.

I actually strongly agree here.  The always infiltrate would be a very effective advantage; enough to please the Eldar generals while keeping their opponents on their toes, but both infiltrate and FOF would be too powerful.  I may be wrong here, but is there any way for any army to have a melee in the first turn?

[MrWacko]

I agree D3 would make more sense fluff wise, but you might have to have the no FoF if they have just infiltrated as well, or there would be the same problem. At the minute, nothing can start 12" from the enemy and move more than 6". Hmmm, "Scorpion rush", no, that just sounds wrong

LoL if we give scorps FoF AND Infiltrate.  I think we all agree that this would be far to powerful, as the squad would be able to do very significant damage.

I believe that FoF should be changed for ALL infantry.  For 4+ armor and exarchs, FoF should be D6.  3+ I think should be D3.  As for the scorps being able to get into a first turn assault, anyone can if they start 12" away from someone (except someone with a worse movement than 6").  scorps with FoF, even at D3 with a roll of 1 can just get more into CC.  A simple rule change can solve this.  Changing the Infiltrate power so that it forces no FoF on the first turn would be quite simple.

On other exarch powers, Defend should either give all the benefits of cover when assaulted (including a cover save, 5+ or 6+), or somehow be applied to the whole squad.  Perhaps the squad WS could be increased by +1 or +2 for defencive purposes.

Acrobatic was designed to allow the Howling Banshee Exarch to strike were she wanted in the squad.  With the rules change, that power is effectivly usless.  It needs to be changed so that the Exarch can choose which models get hit.  It should also allow her to be placed in the Close Combat however she wants.

I could go on and on about all the powers, but ill skip on that

[Iron-Hand Ace]

I believe that FoF should be changed for ALL infantry.  For 4+ armor and exarchs, FoF should be D6.  3+ I think should be D3.  As for the scorps being able to get into a first turn assault, anyone can if they start 12" away from someone (except someone with a worse movement than 6").  scorps with FoF, even at D3 with a roll of 1 can just get more into CC.  A simple rule change can solve this.  Changing the Infiltrate power so that it forces no FoF on the first turn would be quite simple.

But they can only deploy there if they're out of LOS, meaning that they at the very least need to make a difficult terrain check, and probably were deployed behind impassible terrain, so they need to move further than that.

A revision to my earlier question: does anyone know a consistant way of getting any unit into CC in the first turn?  Calvalry can do it, assuming that both sides deployed at the very edge of the deployment zone and they roll a 6 on their fleet move, but this is a rare occurance.

[MrWacko]

But they can only deploy there if they're out of LOS, meaning that they at the very least need to make a difficult terrain check, and probably were deployed behind impassible terrain, so they need to move further than that.

Right, but remember that some infiltrators ignore, or at least are allowed rerolls, on difficult terrain checks.  Now the example im thinking of would NEVER want to get into CC (rangers + pathfinders...), but other units may have similar capabilities or special rules.

A revision to my earlier question: does anyone know a consistant way of getting any unit into CC in the first turn? Calvalry can do it, assuming that both sides deployed at the very edge of the deployment zone and they roll a 6 on their fleet move, but this is a rare occurance.

Howabout this:
Player 1: Has some fast transport, moves 24", deploys units inside.
Player 2: Has another fast transport, moves 24", deploys ontop of other units.

One would think that two foes ontop of eachother would be in an assault, but since you cant assault (or is it charge...), its questionable.  This is also as likely as a royal flush in poker...

[Roy]

Let's not get to hung up on the Fof for scorps, it's not really neccesary.

What about the rest of the changes?

Eldar Experimental Rules

A friend of mine didn't like FoF for scorps, and I see why, (1st turn charge), he also didn't like the swift assault skill for the banshee exharc, and definatively thougt he avatar needed work.

What else do you think? Anything to add/remove from the list? why?

[deusmex]

I can theoritically reach combat in turn 1 half the time I try it if the enemy is 24 inches away and everytime when the enemy is 18 inches away. Assuming I get first turn or if I dont Im not decimated by enemy fire. Unforunately for you Eldar players its with DE using an Archite with a wych squad in a raider

[Roy]

I can theoritically reach combat in turn 1 half the time I try it if the enemy is 24 inches away and everytime when the enemy is 18 inches away. Assuming I get first turn or if I dont Im not decimated by enemy fire. Unforunately for you Eldar players its with DE using an Archite with a wych squad in a raider

Well, the semi official harlequin rules allow mimes to infiltrate and assault with Fof, making it possible to assault in turn 1.

[deusmex]

Venom Transports are open topped so any Harlie trouper can assault in turn 1. What is it with you slow coach Eldar.The Eldar need some open topped goodies I reckon.

[small_furry_spider]

Venom Transports are open topped so any Harlie trouper can assault in turn 1. What is it with you slow coach Eldar.The Eldar need some open topped goodies I reckon.

We have lots of open topped stuff, just none of them are transports....

[MrWacko]

LoL howabout this: The Venom becomes avalable for all Eldar.  Its our light transport.  One of them anyways.  The Falcon sorta qualifies for light transport, but then again...

[Roy]

LoL howabout this: The Venom becomes avalable for all Eldar.  Its our light transport.  One of them anyways.  The Falcon sorta qualifies for light transport, but then again...

MIght as well
But then, that's 3 transports for eldar..