Topic: Squats RT-list for 5th Ed

[Rasmus]

So it started here and has now been dormant a bit.
Another player tried his hand at this, but he did not get very far.

I have now resumed my tinkering with this, and I am hoping that it will turn out ok. I have started revisions by tuning down some of the more obvious elements of overpowering, and I hope it will be better off now. I might even get around to finish painting the collecting of squats I have in my boxes.

The list is now at version: 1.25

It can be downloaded here.

Preview of 1.3 is found here.

I have also reformatted the codex to comply with the new codex formatting we are seeing in the new codeci. This now contains a rundown of fluff, then rules, wargear, units and finally the armylist itself. I hope it makes for easier reading. More pictures will be up once I get all models are painted I will add them to the codex as well.

Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated, but please, read before you post, especially the very first paragraphs in the codex, so that noone gets confused as to what this is.


Edit: updated to 5th Edition
Cleaned up layout a bit, restructured entries.

[Rasmus]

Depends on your reader I guess. Acrobat 6 and Foxit runs it just fine. I have seen it in Acrobat 7 as well, but not sure which build.

[Rasmus]

Then there is something else wrong at your end, I'm afraid. I just downloaded it to a remote terminal and using Read 7.09 the file reads perfectly.

Try downloading it again and use another reader, like Foxit. The file is intact, and I have to suspect that something in your .dll-files for the reader is broken.

[Rasmus]

Use a friend's computer with a non-beta OS and print it then.

[Benandorf]

Use a friend's computer with a non-beta OS and print it then.

Vista's not beta anymore.  Just more buggy than XP was when it came out.

Awesome list, Rasmus.  I was just recently looking for this ^_^

[Fire Chicken]

Vista is fine.  Its you

Try getting Lightning viewer.  http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1171405162003

[Rasmus]

Congratulations! At least now you can read the document!

[finoro]

1st a note on downloading. I got the Acrobat this file is damaged message too. The problem is I didn't get all of the file. File size should be 192kB if it isn't then you need to download it again.

All in all I think its a good effort Razmus but I do think there are a few problems.

Living ancestors. These are enfeebled old husks helped around by strong young Squats or riding in sidecars and you have them as closecombat superheroes. I really think they should be Str2 or 3 at the most and toughness is too high for old dudes in bathchairs. And how many attacks? 1 is enough. Maybe give him a nice closecombat weapon(Wounds on 3 no saves?) As the list is at the moment you could turn this guy into a Bloodthirster killer.

Don't like the Domination psychic power. Its too definite. Crazy alternative. Use at the start of the turn and make it remove all Moral/leadership bonuses. The unit affected must make all tests using its basic leadership with no bonuses or special rules. So no mob size checks or vox casters or synapse. This only applies to morale and leadership tests not things like Power of the Waaaah, Immunity to ID in synapse, ATSKNF etc.  

Ornate breastplates are too good 3+ is enough. You already have access to 2+ saves in Exo armour you do not need to give two options.

Conversion beamers are too available and too good. Wounds on a 2 and AP 2 with an AP2 blast is kind of crazy. I know that you want to keep the idea of it getting better as the target gets tougher but I don't think it works as it is.
Maybe wounds on a 3/4, AP 1 and if you wound roll to wound again till you fail? Only 1 model can be hit and cover/inv saves as normal for all wounds. This makes it good against MCs and characters without blowing whole Meq units to bits. Against vehicles penetrates on a 4+ maybe Ordnance damage tables for AV13+. I dunno just a thought.

[Rasmus]

Ok, point by point. I will just try to convey the reasons for making it the way it is made.

1st a note on downloading. I got the Acrobat this file is damaged message too. The problem is I didn't get all of the file. File size should be 192kB if it isn't then you need to download it again.

   I am getting this stuff rehosted this weekend when I set up a new domain. Linking from 110mb.com has been a pain since day 1.

All in all I think its a good effort Razmus but I do think there are a few problems.

   That's not my name though.

Living ancestors. These are enfeebled old husks helped around by strong young Squats or riding in sidecars and you have them as closecombat superheroes. I really think they should be Str2 or 3 at the most and toughness is too high for old dudes in bathchairs. And how many attacks? 1 is enough. Maybe give him a nice closecombat weapon(Wounds on 3 no saves?) As the list is at the moment you could turn this guy into a Bloodthirster killer.

   Have you read th RT-list or the 2nd ed Squat-list? The Living ancestors I have are toned down from what they were. They basically are greater damons with shorter legs. I have tried to balance this out and came up on this larger-than-beards Space Marine commander. So far, prelimiary testing shows it works, as it has balancing-points imposed in getting him.

Don't like the Domination psychic power. Its too definite. Crazy alternative. Use at the start of the turn and make it remove all Moral/leadership bonuses. The unit affected must make all tests using its basic leadership with no bonuses or special rules. So no mob size checks or vox casters or synapse. This only applies to morale and leadership tests not things like Power of the Waaaah, Immunity to ID in synapse, ATSKNF etc.  

   This used to make you take control over enemy models and dance them around the field. As this was too much of a throwback into old school I figured Pinning was enough. If it is to test against LD with no modifiers then the cost will have to be dropped considerably.

Ornate breastplates are too good 3+ is enough. You already have access to 2+ saves in Exo armour you do not need to give two options.

    It is simply Artificer armour from Marines. Should they not have that either? They have 2+ saves in Terminator armour after all?

Conversion beamers are too available and too good. Wounds on a 2 and AP 2 with an AP2 blast is kind of crazy. I know that you want to keep the idea of it getting better as the target gets tougher but I don't think it works as it is.
Maybe wounds on a 3/4, AP 1 and if you wound roll to wound again till you fail? Only 1 model can be hit and cover/inv saves as normal for all wounds. This makes it good against MCs and characters without blowing whole Meq units to bits. Against vehicles penetrates on a 4+ maybe Ordnance damage tables for AV13+. I dunno just a thought.

   The blast has no AP, but I see the wording is off there. Will correct it. Sorry.

[GirBrother2]

This is sooo awsome! My friend and I have been looking for this. thanks Rasmus

[Rasmus]

Anytime. It is still a work in progress, and gets updated as testing and math progresses.

[FunnyTom]

A few questions/points on the list you posted above.

First off, good work!  It is nice to be able to read about the squats, and have a set of rules with which to play them if one is so inclined. 

Just a couple of points: 

One, what is behind the squat drivers having cowboy hats?  Some background into the joke would be appreciated. 

Two, I noticed that there are a couple of odd rules involving vehicles rolling a D3 on the glancing hits table.  Given that this is a new game mechanic, is it really necessary?  Couldn't you have a glancing hit with -1 on the glancing hits chart or the like?  Or 2D6 pick the lowest?

Three, the weapon options on the tarantula are a bit odd, and quite powerful.  I think that having 2 TL lascannons (ok, 1.6 on average) for 30 points is a bit on the cheap side.  And why is the rapier cheaper than a lascannon?

Four, isn't potentially having an entire squad of lascannons for 180 points a bit insane?!  Or, for that matter an entire squad of HBs?  Even marine devastator squads don't come close to that!  Maybe limit it to half the squad can take them (at most)?  The half-squad of non-overheating plasma seems a bit much as well. 

Anyway, thats the only gripes I have with the list at the moment. 

One last idea though, would it be possible to get pics of the models for each choice in the next edition?  For newcomers such as myself the squats remain a mystery.

[Rasmus]

1. It is just an homage to Kong in Strangelove I think. It was in there to begin with.

2. I think there are D3-rolls... Can't recall where I saw it though. Will look into it.
Edit: I have and it was in 3rd ed. It is now 2D6 picking the lowest. Thanks.

3. Rapier is because it is not TLed, and has a lower rate of fire. It ha more punch but does not punch as well or as often.

4. Yes it is, but the limiting of having a Combat squad per Support squad means you can't just get 6 of them. At most you can get 3 but then you have to pay for 3 combat-squads as well. In testing it has worked out well, as it is really really hard to effectively use 10 of them alltogether. You block LOS, have trouble moving all to face one target and so on, or get mowed down really quickly. Yes, they have killed off groups of orks like nothing else, or get lost if they get two small blasts lobbed into them. They are a gamble. Yes, on paper it looks insane, but on the field the group works quite well.
And yes, the assaultsquad, again, is quite viscious, but if you want to have the full use of its potential you have to get a combatsquad as well, and in testing they have balanced out really well. I have one group with flamers and one with plasmas/meltas, and while they are dangersous they have yet to survive an entire game, as they don't have the stayingpower. At 12"  (for full use of the plasma) they tend to get wiped out in the next turn.

5. Yes, once I get all my models painted I will get them all photographed and insert some stuff into the codex for them. As I am not done I have not taken any pictures yet. I am at about half-way now of 4k of the models I have. I just finished my squad of non-exo armoured hearthguard and their assault-vehicle Rhino.

[Mabrothrax]

A very well made list. Is there enough material to make a Chaos Squat appendix list?

I had a look back at the Chaos Squat entry in ROC - LATD, it's rather sparse and doesn't even include exo-armour as an option (despite there being models avaliable).

Does anyone know of a Chaos Squat list in RT?

Thanks,

Mabrothrax.

[Rasmus]

There was a variant-list, sort of "replace X with Y" for a Chaos List, but no major publication. I am sure that someone with a bit of sense and a EoT-codex for reference could make one though. I am not, as I am concentrating on getting this one working first.

[Khodexus]

Wow, I got into WH40k apparently after this army list was dropped fromt he game.  The concept is definately something I like, as I've already engaged in a personal creativity project to introduce a "Dwarf" like race to 40k.  I called mine Khazad, and it's very encouraging to find that A. something like this has existed in 40k in the past, which means there's a good place for them, and B. alot of my ideas are very similar to what else is out there.  Perhaps I will have to upload my ideas here at some point, would that be something you'd all enjoy?

[Rasmus]

Of course. Just don't try to make them "fantasy-dwarves in space" as it has been done to death.

[Khodexus]

Heh, well my original inspiration was a "dwarf like race" but I think what I came up with has plenty of originality.  I didn't base anything on fantasy battle dwarf armies, just my ideas of how a race with some similar themes used in dwarf stories might be in 40k.

Basically I concentrated on heavy armour, tenacious defense, and powerful explosive weaponry.  I even designed a whole line of unique weaponry for them and a few ideas for units and vehicles.  And some thoughts for background fluff of course, explaning among other things where this race has been all this time the Imperium has been around, not encountering them.

It could perhaps be modified to fit in with the ideas behind the Squats, but I think it works well enough on its own, and has sufficient dwarfiness to satisfy a Dwarf fan, and sufficient Originality to satisfy most everyone else.

What would be a good way to submit some of the material I have so people here can look at it?  I have alot of conceptual stuff, but haven't really drawn up model stat lines yet, or points costs for that matter.

[Rasmus]

I suggest you start a new topic about it - this thread is about this particular list.

[Khodexus]

Alright, one other thing though, I have most of it in a word document, I'm not sure it'd translate quite properly into a forum post, and it's a little on the lengthy side.  So any tips on uploading it somewhere so I can link to it instead of posting it all?